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  1. #1581
    Grime Forum Regular datnigganev's Avatar
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    I agree R9>>>Messi however what Messi is currently doing is unbelievable.

  2. #1582
    I will continue with my wicked ways iDonate
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    i meant on the continential stage if you read the whole sentence you would understand the context

  3. #1583
    Grime Forum OG M.O.G.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimes View Post
    i meant on the continential stage if you read the whole sentence you would understand the context
    Only 25 though, has what, 2 more world cups in him plus the copa america etc
    Time is on his side, the way he's going he could smash all kinds of goal-scoring records before he retires (injuries permitting of course)
    Blog: https://mindofgrime.blogspot.co.uk// NEW BLOG

    I'll play the position you want me to, lure you in then snap!!!! Game Over!

  4. #1584
    Super Moderator Hutch's Avatar
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    Repped @Mr. Jefferies for talking sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eagle View Post
    thats not my mum
    Quote Originally Posted by Hij View Post
    Jamie asked to be banned
    ^^^When the banter is just too much^^^

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    Cool European Cup bro
    Thanks bro, it was a great night.

  5. #1585
    Naruto
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    idc what they think of mine but i refuse to take any1's opinion serious who says R9 >>> messi let alone xavi >>> messi

    take nothing away from r9 but fucking hell lol

    and that wc argument ijrfnjkfnmrekfnrekolf

  6. #1586
    Officially A Fully Pledged
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    lululu

    @CharlieRambo you are blatantly trolling niggas ITT
    Power is the ability to define phenomena and make it act in a desired manner
    If you have the ability to define the only thing left is to organize it
    So when a pig walks up to you you will be so organised and you will be learning some tactics
    So when gets to jiving with you and the pig is wrong you whip your guns out blow him away then you the abilty and have the made that pig act in a desired manner

  7. #1587
    nortside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GimmeSpaceGimmeRoom View Post
    Fuck a world cup


    Records

    World
    Guiness World Records title for the most goals in a year: 88 goals.
    Most international goals in a year (club and national team): 25 goals (shared with Vivian Woodward).
    Most goals scored in FIFA Club World Cup: 4 goals (held jointly with Denilson).

    Europe
    Most goals scored in a season (club): 73 goals.
    Most goals scored in a year (club): 76 goals.
    Most goals scored in a European Cup season: 14 goals (held jointly with José Altafini).
    Most European Cup top scorer awards: 4 awards (shared with Gerd Müller).
    Highest scorer in a European Cup game: 5 goals (held jointly with ten other players).

    Argentina
    Most goals scored in a year (national team): 12 goals (shared with Batistuta).

    Spain
    Most goals scored in La Liga in a season: 50 goals.
    Most La Liga hat-tricks in a season: 8 hat-tricks.
    Most goals scored in the Supercopa de Espańa: 10 goals.
    Most consecutive La Liga matches scored in: 10 matches (shared with Ronaldo and Mariano Martín).

    Barcelona
    Top scorer in official competitions: 285 goals.
    Top scorer in La Liga: 192 goals.
    Top scorer in UEFA Champions League: 56 goals.
    Top scorer in European Competitions: 57 goals.
    Top scorer in international Competitions: 61 goals.
    Most all competitions hat-tricks overall: 21.
    Most La Liga hat-tricks overall: 15.


    Honours

    Barcelona
    La Liga: 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11
    Copa del Rey: 2008–09, 2011–12; Runner-up 2010–11.
    Supercopa de Espańa: 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010, 2011; Runner-up 2012.
    UEFA Champions League: 2005–06, 2008–09, 2010–11.
    UEFA Super Cup: 2009, 2011; Runner-up 2006.
    FIFA Club World Cup: 2009, 2011.

    Argentina
    Olympic Gold Medal: 2008.
    FIFA U-20 World Cup: 2005.
    Runner up:
    Copa America: 2007.
    Third place:
    U20 South American Youth Championship: 2005.

    Individual
    FIFA Ballon d'Or (2): 2010, 2011. Created in 2010.
    Ballon d'Or (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2009.
    FIFA World Player of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2009.
    European Golden Shoe (2): 2010, 2012.
    IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer (1): 2011.[261]
    LFP Best Forward (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
    LFP Best Player (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
    UEFA Champions League Top Goalscorer (4): 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
    Onze d'Or (3): 2009, 2011, 2012. No winner in 2010.
    Pichichi Trophy (2): 2010, 2012.
    La Liga Ibero-American Player of the Year (5): 2007, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2012.
    World Soccer Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2011, 2012.
    ESM Team of the Year (6): 2005–06, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2009–10, 2010–11, 2011–12.
    UEFA Champions League Final Man of the Match (1): 2011.
    FIFA Club World Cup Golden Ball (2): 2009, 2011.
    FIFA/FIFPro World XI (5): 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.
    La Liga Player of the Year (3): 2009, 2010, 2011.
    UEFA Best Player in Europe Award (1): 2011. Created in 2011.
    UEFA Team of the Year (4): 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011.
    La Liga Foreign Player of the Year (3): 2007, 2009, 2010. Ceased to exist in 2010.
    UEFA Champions League Forward of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2010.
    UEFA Club Footballer of the Year (1): 2009. Ceased to exist in 2010.
    Marca Leyenda (1): 2009.
    FIFPro World Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008.
    World Soccer Young Player of the Year (3): 2006, 2007, 2008.
    Bravo Award (1): 2007.
    Copa América Young Player of the Tournament (1): 2007.
    European Golden Boy (1): 2005.
    FIFA U-20 World Cup Player of the Tournament (1): 2005.
    FIFA U-20 World Cup Top Goalscorer (1): 2005.
    Say no more!!!

  8. #1588
    It Don't Make Sense To Me
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    updates

  9. #1589
    Grime Forum Don
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    Ronaldo >>>

  10. #1590
    Grime Forum Don Scrappy123's Avatar
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    The people who dismiss the WC argument are as bad as the people who push it so far. Really and truly how many of the true GOATS of football haven't delivered at a World Cup though?

    Not like Messi plays for a shit country tbf.
    "This is Fulham for heaven’s sake. This is a club which 15 years ago didn’t have two brass filings to rub together, which used to play in front of 3 or 4000 rattling around here. Which once played on a night in Rochdale needing points to stay off the bottom of the English League. But were brought by a very rich man, and there he is. And which has now become a hugely enriched club.”

  11. #1591
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrappy123 View Post
    The people who dismiss the WC argument are as bad as the people who push it so far. Really and truly how many of the true GOATS of football haven't delivered at a World Cup though?
    Messi.

    The point is you are judging an individual on team performance, people laugh at the ballon dor because of that and say players should be judged off their own achievements yet will use that argument against players when it suits.

    How will argentina winning the world cup make messi's dribbling/technique/finishing/free kicks any better? It wont. Just judge a player with your eyes. Messi is already up there.

  12. #1592
    nortside's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrappy123 View Post
    The people who dismiss the WC argument are as bad as the people who push it so far. Really and truly how many of the true GOATS of football haven't delivered at a World Cup though?

    Not like Messi plays for a shit country tbf.
    Think people ain't dismissing it. More saying it's clear messi is sick and a shouldn't just be judged on a summer tournament with various factors. Put it this way. How mAny shit players shine in tournaments but week in week out don't hack it?

  13. #1593
    Soundbwoy Murderer
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scrappy123 View Post
    The people who dismiss the WC argument are as bad as the people who push it so far. Really and truly how many of the true GOATS of football haven't delivered at a World Cup though?

    Not like Messi plays for a shit country tbf.
    Cruyff
    Platini
    Rummenigge
    Eusebio
    All them Yugoslavian legends who didn't win it

    I know you'll come back and say all of them aren't considered to be greats in the game to be honest. That's what everyone pulls out.

  14. #1594
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    Eusebio is a good shout, although is it fair to say Cruyff? I swear he got to two finals.

    George Best too.

  15. #1595
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    Got to one final, he didn't play in 1978, had disputes with the Dutch FA

    Plus he still didn't win it so he doesn't count I swear?

    And yeah Best is a good shout, alot of people argue that at his peak he was the best in the world. I remember some guy was pissed that United fans considered Cantona the best player the club has had, he thought Best was miles better than Cantona.

  16. #1596
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    Quote Originally Posted by HowYouLiving View Post
    Got to one final, he didn't play in 1978, had disputes with the Dutch FA

    Plus he still didn't win it so he doesn't count I swear?

    And yeah Best is a good shout, alot of people argue that at his peak he was the best in the world. I remember some guy was pissed that United fans considered Cantona the best player the club has had, he thought Best was miles better than Cantona.
    I'd agree with that, best/charlton for me although i know a lot of older united fans say duncan edwards was/would have been the best, if you look at his record for such a young player it is remarkable. And yeah just saw, lol at the winning it comment though

  17. #1597
    Grime Forum Don Scrappy123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Jefferies View Post
    Messi.

    The point is you are judging an individual on team performance, people laugh at the ballon dor because of that and say players should be judged off their own achievements yet will use that argument against players when it suits.

    How will argentina winning the world cup make messi's dribbling/technique/finishing/free kicks any better? It wont. Just judge a player with your eyes. Messi is already up there.
    Of course he is up there, there is no doubting that. My point is people labeling him the undisputed greatest ever and then laughing at the WC argument is silly imo.

    For me anyway, a certified GOAT obviously needs the ability,but the international accolades or at least winning something in a different environment is what will truly cement it. Maradona pretty much led an Argentina side which is far weaker than the one Messi has to a world cup. People say he has matched Maradona, but that is one huge thing he hasn't come close to doing yet.

    --

    Oh and Winning a WC doesn't = Delivering at a WC. Messi hasn't done either imo.

    Alot of those names still had decent tournaments, better tournaments than Messi. As for Best, he was from Northern Ireland, Messi is from Argentina. Messi SHOULD deliver playing for Argentina. I'm playing Devils Advocate mostly, but the WC point is still a very fair point imo.
    Last edited by Scrappy123; 21st January '13 at 02:13 AM.
    "This is Fulham for heaven’s sake. This is a club which 15 years ago didn’t have two brass filings to rub together, which used to play in front of 3 or 4000 rattling around here. Which once played on a night in Rochdale needing points to stay off the bottom of the English League. But were brought by a very rich man, and there he is. And which has now become a hugely enriched club.”

  18. #1598
    Soundbwoy Murderer
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    Define an individual delivering at a World Cup then. You seem to take into consideration that the rest of the team is important yet you're basing the individuals performance on them alone

    When Platini's France didn't win it did he deliver? Was he restricted due to his team or did they boost him? If his team was that good (Like you're saying Argentina are) why didn't they win? Same for Cruyff, why didn't him and Netherlands win?

    Why are both considered definitely as two of the best players of their respective generations?

    Also let's throw in Gullit, Van Basten and those boys, they're considered some of the finest players of the 90s. No one come here and try and understate their impact on football with AC Milan, why didn't them two win World Cups? Why are they stilll considered as two of the best players of the 90s? Van Basten might even get rated higher by some people on the best strikers of all time list
    Last edited by HowYouLiving; 21st January '13 at 04:29 AM.

  19. #1599
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    top post ^

    to conclude, there is no such thing or universally accepted definition of 'doing it' or 'delivering', they're meaningless words critics use to justify their agendas against modern players. my mate's dad does my tits in , "ah well if you'd have seen diego play then you'd understand", can't fuckin stand blokes that are like 40+ that swear by maradona being the greatest over messi (or whoever) because he 'did it' in a world cup, the reality is we are living in a time where we are fortunate enough to watch players' matches in their entirety each week whereas pre-sky you only saw the likes of maradona & co. if they played against england or english sides in europe in matches that were televised. maradona may have done well in '86 but what about all the other games in italy that weren't televised to british fans?

    maradona may have been better than messi, but from the stuff i can see on youtube, which is presumably his best footage, i don't think he is, and the arguments are not enough to convince me otherwise because they're just too inconsistent and contradictory. to be perfectly honest it just smacks of elitism complexes from old farts who think going for the more obscure player from past generations over current players means they can 'see' something there that we can't, that they are somehow more 'knowledgable'. obviously i can accept different opinions and whatever as that's football for you but some of the arguments are just completely daft to be honest. just judge a player with your eyes, i'm yet to see someone who finishes so consistently well, dribbles, passes, controls the ball, scores as frequently etc as messi can. that's why i think he's the best. winning a world cup (or not winning one) won't change the qualities he already has.

    fwiw i think both ronaldo and messi will be considered all-time greats when they've retired.
    Last edited by Mr. Jefferies; 21st January '13 at 04:56 AM.

  20. #1600
    Grime Forum Manager Administrator Hij's Avatar
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    Jefferies >>>>>>

    International football is moot. What we gonna judge a player on 5 games every 4 years now? What happens if his best mate dies just before the tournament? Nah
    Quote Originally Posted by Jack 1017 View Post
    Suarez is probably the best player in the world

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