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  1. #881
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    Retarded argument tbh.
    Arsenal have won more trophy's than us.
    Not recently though.
    /argument.
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  2. #882
    Grime Forum Elite EA's Avatar
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    From an objective POV:

    Arsenal = big club
    Chelsea = big club

    Arsenal historically > Chelsea historically
    Chelsea currently > Arsenal currently

    People are going put an asterisk next to Chelsea's success due to high powered inflated spending (rightly or wrongly) and Chelsea fans need to accept that.
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  3. #883
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Messiah View Post
    Will make a contentious disapproval of Nottingham Forest. Their success came largely in one decade/cycle.

    Even Tottenham have a better claim due to their longevity and trophies over time.
    Forest draw 30,000 in the Championship. Some Premiership clubs would kill for that. Big club isn't necessarily a successful club.

    Also it annoys me when some fans (Leeds, Nottm Forest in particular) think they deserve to be in the Premiership because they are big clubs. It's irrelevant to their current shitness. But big clubs none the less.

    For all the shit City get, they were drawing crowds in League 1.

  4. #884
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    Quote Originally Posted by chris89 View Post
    sorry lads only CL winners allowed ITT
    #PartOfTheGang
    THFC > LFC

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  5. #885
    Super Moderator The Messiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Romelu Lukaku View Post
    My argument isn't that Chelsea have a more successful history than Arsenal, it's that Chelsea have a better chance of a successful future than Arsenal.
    This I will disagree with strongly.

    Success in the immediate future in terms of trophies - yes. Success in the long term in terms of longevity, sustainablity - no.

    Any team that spends more has a better chance of making good signings. I've had this chat with @Danielson already. This is why City and Chelsea will do well.

    However the money that is being spent at Stamford Bridge is not that of Chelsea FC. It is Abramovich's money. As long as he continues to take the hit, then fine. But in the meantime they will have ever increasing wages and costs to pay. If the money the club generates on its own is not enough to cover the running costs - then they will have a serious unavoidable problem at some point when that money is no longer flowing. It may not be in 10 years, it may be in 30 when Abramovich is reaching the time to leave the earth.

    United have a similar issue but they get away with it currently because the additional money they get from sponsorship, merchandise, trophy/competition money keeps them just about tied over. They will have issues when that dries up.

    The clubs that will still be in the top flight and competing in some shape or form in 50 years will be the likes of Everton, Tottenham, Arsenal, Liverpool. If United sort themselves out - which they are still capable of doing they'll be ok. With such reliance on one person/company - I can't say the same with the same certainty for City and Chelsea.

    If you think I'm being far-fetched let me remind you that the only team never to have been relegated from top-flight football since football began is Wigan. Since the Premiership began only Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool, Manchester United, Tottenham Hotspur, Aston Villa and Chelsea remain without prior relegation...
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  6. #886
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    Arsenal are an enigma.
    They have the same funds as City, Utd, Chelsea, Psg, ect but continue to spend and improve on the same level as Wigan or Fulham.

    Just don't make sense mayne.
    THFC > LFC

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  7. #887
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    I agree with the sentiment of your post, but Everton's finances are in a real mess. Same for Villa, only not as bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyMan View Post
    Arsenal are an enigma.
    They have the same funds as City, Utd, Chelsea, Psg, ect but continue to spend and improve on the same level as Wigan or Fulham.

    Just don't make sense mayne.
    Record signing = 6m.

  8. #888
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    Quote Originally Posted by quality View Post
    I agree with the sentiment of your post, but Everton's finances are in a real mess. Same for Villa, only not as bad.



    Record signing = 6m.
    Are Everton not safe? I thought that was the reason for Bates' prudence.

    Obviously me saying the likes of Wigan was a joke but the point remains Arsenal have the funds and resources of a top class European side, but spend and act like a second-tier club. With the notable recent exception of Cazorla aside, Arsenal for a decade now have behaved like a Marseille when really they should be competing with Bayern Munich. I really don't see why the key figures at Arsenal are following this path and why they have let the club get this way. Being careful with money is great, but in football you have to spend money to make money and imo their "risk-free" policy is actually the riskiest of all big clubs.*

    *Outside Liverpool, please don't mention Liverpool guise.
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  9. #889
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    https://swissramble.blogspot.co.uk/20...lue-skies.html

    https://www.evertonfc.com/evertoninte...the-money-goes

    https://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2...bill-kenwright

    Everton are fucked. That's why they always have to sell their players. For all the talk of 'investment', Kenright is basically saying they need a rich fucker to buy them out. And no one is going to do that without a new stadium on the horizon.

  10. #890
    MoneyMan's Avatar
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    Hmm interdasting.

    Never mind stadium share, we should do an owner swap with them lul
    THFC > LFC

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  11. #891
    Super Moderator The Messiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyMan View Post
    Are Everton not safe? I thought that was the reason for Bates' prudence.

    Obviously me saying the likes of Wigan was a joke but the point remains Arsenal have the funds and resources of a top class European side, but spend and act like a second-tier club. With the notable recent exception of Cazorla aside, Arsenal for a decade now have behaved like a Marseille when really they should be competing with Bayern Munich. I really don't see why the key figures at Arsenal are following this path and why they have let the club get this way. Being careful with money is great, but in football you have to spend money to make money and imo their "risk-free" policy is actually the riskiest of all big clubs.*

    *Outside Liverpool, please don't mention Liverpool guise.
    German football runs on a much better fiscal system than English football. You can't really compare Bayern to Arsenal and Chelsea tbh.

    I take your point though. You do need to spend money - but better to spend money that is yours though rather than credit...

    The guys are Arsenal believe the following:
    1. Some sort of fair play rules will come into place - this has come true but probably to to the extent they were thinking.
    2. TV rights can't forever keep increasing at their current levels - eventually someone will fuck over Sky.

    Which are fair enough views. The problem is, is that others don't see them becoming issues for at least a decade or two. Which is why people don't understand why Arsenal are choosing to handicap themselves now for a threat that however probable, is currently merely 'perceived'.

    Arsenal view point is that if it never happens, we've set ourselves to be run properly. If it does happen we'll be best placed to clean up on the football, whilst other clubs have to sort themselves out with austerity.


    Me and @Clive Eboue are happy to go through a trophy drought, provided when the debt is paid off Arsenal start spending the cash...
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  12. #892
    Grime Forum OG Clive Eboue's Avatar
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    Well said @The Messiah

    although saying that if we clear our debt and nothing changes I'm going in on our board Breivik stylee.
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  13. #893
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    @The Messiah the names I mentioned were just names. Of course the Bundesliga is streets ahead of the Prem and English footy in every way other than overall competitiveness and excitement. They have this little thing called common sense which somehow doesn't reach beyond the borders of Germany.

    But they were just examples as Bayern = a top rank team. I wonder how long you Arsenal fans will allow yourselves to be strung along as from the outside looking in it just seems like you have swallowed bullshit upon bullshit for years now.

    I'm not sure what's worse actually, the "blind mice" optimism of Arsenal fans who seem unwilling to question the authority, or the blind paranoia of Liverpool fans who criticise before properly knowing the facts. "Yanks out" ect.

    Obviously, these are very generalised and stereotypical views.
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  14. #894
    Super Moderator The Messiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MoneyMan View Post
    @The Messiah the names I mentioned were just names. Of course the Bundesliga is streets ahead of the Prem and English footy in every way other than overall competitiveness and excitement. They have this little thing called common sense which somehow doesn't reach beyond the borders of Germany.

    But they were just examples as Bayern = a top rank team. I wonder how long you Arsenal fans will allow yourselves to be strung along as from the outside looking in it just seems like you have swallowed bullshit upon bullshit for years now.

    I'm not sure what's worse actually, the "blind mice" optimism of Arsenal fans who seem unwilling to question the authority, or the blind paranoia of Liverpool fans who criticise before properly knowing the facts. "Yanks out" ect.

    Obviously, these are very generalised and stereotypical views.
    Oh I'm not optimistic, and we have swallowed bullshit. The board want dividends. But once the debt is paid, the club have nothing to stand on in continuing to be tight. Both me and Clive have gone on record saying we will torch the Emirates with the board locked in the boardroom, if things do not change.

    The other thing worth considering is that any other manger after Wenger will not be able to do what he has done. therefore the board will have to give that person a war chest.
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  15. #895
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    Can't help the feeling that clubs pinning all their hope on FFP, including probably my own but more explicitly Arsenal and Liverpool, are going to feel really let down. If Man City, Chelsea, PSG etc can afford the best players in the world, and to give Wayne fucking Bridge 100k/week, I'm pretty sure they can afford the best lawyers in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Messiah View Post
    The other thing worth considering is that any other manger after Wenger will not be able to do what he has done. therefore the board will have to give that person a war chest.
    Don't buy this logic at all, feel when Wenger/Fergie leave it will usher in a very difficult era, rather than one of big spending.

  16. #896
    Super Moderator The Messiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by quality View Post
    Don't buy this logic at all, feel when Wenger/Fergie leave it will usher in a very difficult era, rather than one of big spending.
    Any new manager to a club is allowed a war chest to imprint himself onto the club - unless you are Brendan Rogers...

    New manager = cash to spend. Ask Dagliesh...
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  17. #897
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Messiah View Post
    Any new manager to a club is allowed a war chest to imprint himself onto the club - unless you are Brendan Rogers...

    New manager = cash to spend. Ask Dagliesh...
    Dalglish = Liverpool legend, with a great record in the transfer market (ask Newcastle fans )

    Seems retarded logic to not give serious money to two of the best managers in the game currently, but to the person who replaces them.

  18. #898
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    Quote Originally Posted by quality View Post
    Dalglish = Liverpool legend, with a great record in the transfer market (ask Newcastle fans )

    Seems retarded logic to not give serious money to two of the best managers in the game currently, but to the person who replaces them.
    Wenger doesn't want it...

    He's got an Economic degree after all...
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Messiah View Post
    Wenger doesn't want it...

    He's got an Economic degree after all...
    He's prone to a bit of keynesianism every now and again. Wiltord, Jeffers, Reyes, Arshavin, Hleb, Eduardo etc.

  20. #900
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    Agree with Quality.

    Wenger's replacement (god help whoever he is) ain't getting shit.

    The more I think about it, Brendan is actually a better long term fit for Arsenal than us. But Arsene ain't ready to go yet.
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