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Anonymous
26th August '08, 07:49 AM
Milan Sign Senderos


Milan have completed the signing of Arsenal defender Philippe Senderos on a one year loan deal, with the option to make the move permanent next summer.

The Rossoneri have been desperately searching for a centre back in recent weeks following the injury to key man Alessandro Nesta.

With Dario Simic and Digao both being offloaded, things started to become desperate for the Rossoneri when primary target Branislav Ivanovic, who had seemed certain to join from Chelsea, saw his transfer fall through at the last moment.

It was reported last week that Milan had turned their attentions to another Premiership based player, in the form of Arsenal centre back Philippe Senderos, and the deal has now been officially completed.

The Swiss centre back arrives on a one year loan deal, and Milan have the option to make the move permanent for a set fee next summer.

Senderos had been well down the pecking order at Arsenal following an error-prone season last term, and Arsene Wenger signalled his intention to let him leave after signing Manchester Unitedís Mickael Silvestre last week.

The 23-year-old Senderos made 74 Premiership appearances, scoring four goals, since signing for Arsenal from Servette in December 2002.

He has won 31 caps for Switzerland, playing at World Cup 2006 and Euro 2008.

Anonymous
26th August '08, 07:49 AM
Lol

Jammie Dodger
26th August '08, 09:24 AM
Yeah, Found this out before the Man Utd Game. Who would want to buy him (seriously). His a player that should just stay at Arsenal.

Grimes
26th August '08, 10:57 AM
Senderos is good player he's only 23, the most defenders don't hit their maximum until their 27+

Eric Cantona
26th August '08, 12:20 PM
Arsenal looking thin at the back without him though.

Pristine Condition
26th August '08, 01:19 PM
LOL @ loan.

The Messiah
26th August '08, 01:45 PM
Senderos is good player he's only 23, the most defenders don't hit their maximum until their 27+

I think he'll be an amazing player in 3/4 years time.


Arsenal looking thin at the back without him though.

Agreed. Especially as he is the only no-nonsense defender we have. We'll be fighting for 4th as per usual.

Hij
26th August '08, 01:54 PM
Not gonna write Arsenal off yet as you never know with Wenger, but fucking hell its certainly been an interesting summer.

Tasha
26th August '08, 02:08 PM
lol @ Senderous being a good player

Quality Control
26th August '08, 02:18 PM
arsenal are just a feeder club for the big teams

Xtra P
26th August '08, 03:26 PM
arsenal are just a feeder club for the big teams

I have to admit, its starting to seem like that :sad:

Jammie Dodger
26th August '08, 03:46 PM
He is a good player. I just cant see him playing anywhere else apart Arsenal. Milan will be a good experience for him thou.

DTI
26th August '08, 03:57 PM
Average defender, drogba's made him look ordinary more than once

Eric Cantona
26th August '08, 04:04 PM
He is a good player. I just cant see him playing anywhere else apart Arsenal. Milan will be a good experience for him thou.

He ain't coming back, i doubt he will anyway.

Eagle
26th August '08, 04:17 PM
senderos is swag

Jammie Dodger
26th August '08, 10:34 PM
WOW. Bolton Got knocked out.

The Messiah
27th August '08, 01:39 AM
lol @ Senderous being a good player

He is. I don't care what any of you non-Arsenal fans say. He had (and still has imo) the potential to be a monster of a defender.


Average defender, drogba's made him look ordinary more than once

Drogba made a lot of defenders look ordinary at the time.

The Messiah
27th August '08, 01:44 AM
Arseblog and Gunnerblog have pretty much all my sentiments. It's nice to be reminded that there are other intelligent Arsenal fans: Another one bites the dust (http://www.oleole.com/blogs/arseblog/posts/another-one-bites-the-dust)


So our thin squad got even thinner yesterday with the news that Philippe Senderos has joined AC Milan on loan for the season with an option for a permanent move.

While some people thought the signing of Silvestre (out injured until mid-September, you know! Hurrah!) added some depth and experience to the squad it turns out he was brought in to replace the big Swiss. Gunnerblog today makes a lot of the points I was going to make about this and is a good read. It's true that things didn't work out as well as we hoped for Philippe, and perhaps the move is the best thing for him, if not necessarily for Arsenal.

The two mistakes against Liverpool seem to have finished his Arsenal career but as bad as they were I've always felt other players have been given much more leeway to make errors than Senderos. Perhaps it was his somewhat clumsy style that went against him but there you go. When you lose a big section of the fan base it becomes almost impossible to win them back. Nobody sees the good stuff, only the mistakes you make.

Senderos off to MilanPeople talk about how he was tormented by Drogba yet fail to acknowledge that Drogba, in that period, went up and down the country raping centre-halves week in, week out. Not just 21 year olds still learning the game, but experienced international players. How many times did John Terry fuck up and score own goals when he was that age? Plenty. He got left on his arse by Freddie Ljungberg in the cup final and Freddie, for all his quality back then, wasn't really known for his brute strength.

As Gunnerblog points out it was the arrival of Gallas that really made life difficult for Senderos. That summer Sol Campbell had just left, Senderos and Toure were given the 6 and 5 shirts respectively, and I suspect the plan was for them to start the season and rekindle the partnership that had brought us to the Champions League final in Paris. To this day I maintain that had Senderos and Flamini not picked up those injuries and started that game we'd have won. Instead Arsene had to choose two horrible cunts and we lost.

In the Wenger biography by Xavier Rivoire he reveals that Wenger consulted Tony Adams about making Senderos captain of the club before he gave it to Thierry Henry. That's the kind of regard the young man was held in. And I think had he and Toure started that season as first choice then they we'd be seeing a different Senderos today. I don't think it's any coincidence at all that the best form we've seen from Kolo and indeed from Gallas has come when they've been playing alongside Senderos. He is the kind of centre-half that allows them to do what they're best at. He will try and win the ball early, he attacks the high ball, and allows them to mop up behind. Tomorrow night watch Gallas and see what he does when kick outs come into our half. See the difference.

Now we have four identikit centre-halves, maybe only Djourou (who I'd like to see more of) provides that bit of aggressive defending, of proper central defending, while the others utterly fail to compliment each other. That Senderos has gone to AC Milan speaks volumes for me. They're a club that knows a thing or two about defending. He hasn't gone to Wigan or Birmingham or Stoke City. He's gone to AC Milan and perhaps there he can get the kind of coaching that will make him the centre-half we all wanted him to be when he arrived at the club.

For me the bottom line is this - Phil's departure does not make the squad any better. I don't see that Silvestre is really an improvement as he doesn't address the problems we have in the middle of the defence. He's another Kolo, another Gallas. I fully accept that Senderos made some mistakes but I think the amount of stick he got for them was over the top. He had the potential to get better, Silvestre only has the potential to get older. If you really want to be negative about it you could say that in Flamini, Hleb and Senderos, Cesc has just lost his three best mates at the club. I know professionals are supposed to be above all that but it must have some effect on the young man.

Anyway, I hope the move to Italy goes well for him, I sincerely hope he gets his career back on track and I can't help feeling that we're making life, already tough, even more difficult for ourselves. Someone yesterday described to me what's happened to our squad in the last couple of years as 'asset stripping'. It's hard to argue with that. This summer we've lost Gilberto, Flamini, Hleb, Senderos, Hoyte, Lehmann and brought in Nasri, Silvestre, Ramsey and some injured bloke who has never played a game of professional football in his life. It's amazing, really.

Good bye Phillippe. Where did it all go wrong? (http://gunnerblog.com/?p=1069)


Philippe Senderos will today sign for AC Milan on a season-long loan deal with a view to a permanent move. Whilst I’ll be interested to see if Arsenal.com mention the possibility of a permanent move, it’s clear this isn’t a Havard Nordveit-style loan move for development’s sake - Philippe is being allowed to move on because Arsene considers him dispensible.

That in itself is somewhat of a watershed. Senderos is rare in that he’s one of the first of Wenger’s ‘projects’ to be abandoned. After years of investing time and money in the Swiss defender’s potential, he has now decided to let him go, seemingly preferring to rely on new signing Mikael Silvestre. For the first time in years, Arsene has chosen a veteran over a youngster. And that might not be such a bad thing. Firstly because it might suggest he recognises that his youth experiment has its limits, but secondly because Senderos could never have become the player we needed him to be at a club as lacking in experienced defensive experts as Arsenal.

Arsene Wenger is many things, but he is not a defensive coach. His interest is primarily in attacking or creative players. The great centre-backs he’s had (Adams, Keown, Campbell) have all been either bought or inherited. Kolo Toure is an astonishing athlete and outstanding footballer, but not a born defender. Senderos is. Like John Terry or Nemanja Vidic, it’s inconcievable that Senderos could play in any other position on the field. Wenger does not understand these creatures. They are foreign to him and to his way of thinking. And one has the impression that most of the coaching staff feel the same.

Defending is seen as a secondary art at Arsenal. Arsene was lucky to inherit the world’s best back four, and then to have a defensive phenomenon like Sol Campbell to carry him through the early part of the decade. But since Sol’s departure, the deficiencies in our coaching have become clear - we don’t have a cohesive defensive unit, and are clueless when it comes to set pieces.

For a time, it seemed like Senderos would be the solution to that problem. When Campbell was out injured in both 2005 and 2006, he came in and was outstanding, particularly in our record-breaking run to the Champions League final. Toure and Senderos was a defensive partnership that had a towering stopper and a quick recovering defender - it is the formula that made Adams/Keown and Campbell/Toure such successful pairings. What’s more, the proof was there - it worked, keeping out the likes of Juventus and Real Madrid.

But then Arsene bought William Gallas. And more than the arrival of Silvestre, more than the Champions League exit at Anfield, more than his travails against Didier Drogba, that is what did for Senderos’ Arsenal career. It tells you something about the esteem in which he was held at that point that many assumed Gallas had been bought to play at left-back and replace Ashley Cole.

Gallas is a good defender, and one can understand why Arsene wanted to bring in what he considered proven quality, but he’s hardly been an unequivocal success, has he? One can’t help but wonder what might have happened if Arsene had stuck with Senderos and Toure - not only might we have had a central defensive pairing that functioned, but we might have had a leader and organiser to boot. As it was, Senderos’ confidence was shattered by Wenger’s continually wavering faith, and he became the nervous wreck fans grew to doubt.

But I can’t help but feel that Senderos did not fail us. We failed him, by failing to have a structure in place that was able to his exploit his undoubted potential - just think back to his remarkable European debut at home to Bayern Munich. He is right to move. I now firmly believe he’ll go on to have a good career, starting with an immediate improvement in the slower-paced, defensively astute Italian league. We at Arsenal won’t benefit from that - if he does well, he’ll be staying there permanently, and if he doesn’t then we’ll get back a faltering player who knows the manager no longer values him. Senderos’ Arsenal career is over, whatever the nature of today’s transfer.

The loan apparently brings with it a £1.5m fee. More money into the ‘Save Our Midfield’ fund. Less than a week now, Arsene. We’re waiting.

Such a huge nails. Especially the bits in pink.

Tasha
27th August '08, 01:47 AM
potenial maybe but last season he was not a good player

The Messiah
27th August '08, 01:50 AM
I hope some of you found some of that stuff familiar. Because only a few days ago this was posted:


In great centre-back pairings, you need the athletic/pacy defender and the no-nonsense bruiser. i.e. Ferdinand and Vidic. Gallas and Toure both fit in the first category, and sometimes we get opened up too easily by long balls though the middle (neither of them are particularly tall). Arsenal's best pairing is Toure/Gallas and Senderos.

Despite other Arsenal's fans dislike for Senderos, I think he's vital to Arsenal's future Championship hopes. Due to his lack of pace, he is the sort of defender that will become better with experience just like Tony Adams or John Terry. He definitely heading in the right direction, he just needs to sort out his concentration issues.

Senderos had an extended run in the team when Toure was away at the ACN. In those games, Arsenal picked up 13 points our of 15 and conceded very few goals. In all those games Senderos played well and concentrated. Toure wasn't missed at all. Just a small showing of what the possibilities are if Senderos becomes the player he should do.

The Messiah
27th August '08, 01:54 AM
potenial maybe but last season he was not a good player

Read the post below yours, and pay attention to the bit about the African Cup of Nations. You only said what you said because you had his mistakes in mind. When he concentrated he was a good defender. He made no more mistakes than Gallas did last season. People pick up on Senderos' mistakes more for some reason and tend to let Gallas of the hook.

Aston Villa at home last season: Senderos got the blame for an own goal he (or anyone else in his position) could do anything about. When in fact it was Gallas' mistake that led to the goal in first place. Pissed me off no end seeing Senderos getting stick like that.

What about Kolo Toure giving away a penalty at Anfield? How come he hasn't been vilified for that whilst everyone keeps referring to Senderos' mistake? Another prime example of what I see as unfair treatment.

Eagle
27th August '08, 09:45 AM
gilberto silva got the same sort of send off...even though he couldnt pass for his last 2 seasons. fair play, you lot have a lot of respect for players that leave. but maybe its because you look through red lenses (or maybe because your fans are mainly plastics who have never heard of the likes of David Rocastle and David O'leary)

senderos has been the joke of your squad since pascal cygan left

The Messiah
27th August '08, 03:09 PM
gilberto silva got the same sort of send off...even though he couldnt pass for his last 2 seasons. fair play, you lot have a lot of respect for players that leave. but maybe its because you look through red lenses (or maybe because your fans are mainly plastics who have never heard of the likes of David Rocastle and David O'leary)

senderos has been the joke of your squad since pascal cygan left

Gilberto was a professional through and through. He was an important player during our Invincibles season, and every fan appreciates what he did as captain in Henry's last season, where TH was injured for most of it. Most of us expected him to become captain instead of Gallas when Henry left and most of us were disappointed that he wasn't given the armband.

Allow the red lenses talk, you sound like a prick. The plastic fans are the ones that were slating Gilberto for his poor performances whilst not recognising what he did for the club previously.

As for Senderos, he has been unfairly made out to be the joke of teh club. Many fans think Senderos leaving is a good thing in the sense that he is a bad player, but bad in terms of squad depth, it seems the intelligent fans (of whom there don't seem to be many) think that Senderos leaving is not a good thing in any way shape or form.

Xtra P
27th August '08, 03:23 PM
Would have preferred to see Eboue leave tbh

Eagle
27th August '08, 03:44 PM
Gilberto was a professional through and through. He was an important player during our Invincibles season, and every fan appreciates what he did as captain in Henry's last season, where TH was injured for most of it. Most of us expected him to become captain instead of Gallas when Henry left and most of us were disappointed that he wasn't given the armband.

Allow the red lenses talk, you sound like a prick. The plastic fans are the ones that were slating Gilberto for his poor performances whilst not recognising what he did for the club previously.

As for Senderos, he has been unfairly made out to be the joke of teh club. Many fans think Senderos leaving is a good thing in the sense that he is a bad player, but bad in terms of squad depth, it seems the intelligent fans (of whom there don't seem to be many) think that Senderos leaving is not a good thing in any way shape or form.


lol at saying i sound "like a prick" for suggesting that certain arsenal fans are biased towards their players.

it is good to applaud your loyal players when they leave. however theres no doubting that senderos was never good enough for a top 4 side

The Messiah
27th August '08, 03:53 PM
lol at saying i sound "like a prick" for suggesting that certain arsenal fans are biased towards their players.

it is good to applaud your loyal players when they leave. however theres no doubting that senderos was never good enough for a top 4 side

Did you read any of the articles on the last page? If you did and still think Senderos was never good enough given all the evidence to the contrary, then you do sound like a prick. Quite frankly anyone who doesn't watch Arsenal closely and often and only comments on what MOTD or Sky sports show can't make an informed judgement about Senderos. You only talk about and refer to what others point out for you.

Senderos did and still does have the potential to become a top player he's only 23, ffs.

It is no co-incidence that our best defensive run was the season we got the champions league final not conceding in 13 hours. Senderos was first choice then due to an injured Sol Campbell and Martin Keown was the defensive coach at the time.

Not signing Tony Adams from Portsmouth this summer as a defensive coach when his contract had ended was such an error.

Eagle
27th August '08, 04:01 PM
those articles are biased arsenal blogs, so imo they have little credibility

i prefer to actually watch matches to make a judgment on a player. seeing as i watch pretty much every televised game on itv, sky and setanta, and seeing as top 4 clubs are on most of the time, i feel i have seen enough of senderos

but yeah, you should have signed up tony adams. i wouldnt worry though as he will end up coming to arsenal once he is a world class coach

Hij
27th August '08, 05:07 PM
What about Kolo Toure giving away a penalty at Anfield? How come he hasn't been vilified for that whilst everyone keeps referring to Senderos' mistake? Another prime example of what I see as unfair treatment.

I still think this was a penalty. He may have had more 'stick' as you put it, if there hadn't been a penalty cloud hanging over that game. E.G if the previous incidents regarding penalties hadn't happened, maybe he would be blamed, but the ref and cheating liverpool were always going to get the blame from the majority for a 70-30 penalty.

The Messiah
27th August '08, 05:35 PM
those articles are biased arsenal blogs, so imo they have little credibility

What better people to comment than fans who actually go to the matches to watch games? We are biased when comparing our team to others. We aren't biased when analysing our own squad internally. You don't see any Arsenal fans or blogs sticking up for Eboue do you?


I still think this was a penalty. He may have had more 'stick' as you put it, if there hadn't been a penalty cloud hanging over that game. E.G if the previous incidents regarding penalties hadn't happened, maybe he would be blamed, but the ref and cheating liverpool were always going to get the blame from the majority for a 70-30 penalty.

Do you not agree that Senderos would have been made to shoulder more of the blame had it been him that gave away the penalty?

Hij
27th August '08, 05:40 PM
Do you not agree that Senderos would have been made to shoulder more of the blame had it been him that gave away the penalty?

Oh yeah certainly, a couple of my Arsenal mates hated him, Im just saying Toure was 'lucky' even more so in the sense that he could have punched Babel's lights out and the attention of the penalty would still have been diverted.

The Messiah
27th August '08, 05:47 PM
Oh yeah certainly, a couple of my Arsenal mates hated him, Im just saying Toure was 'lucky' even more so in the sense that he could have punched Babel's lights out and the attention of the penalty would still have been diverted.

Well not really because of the debateablitly of the penalty due to the nature of how it was given. If Kolo had given Babel a right hook, no Arsenal fan would have complained at the referee or Liverpool. But I get what you are saying.

Hij
27th August '08, 05:50 PM
Well not really because of the debateablitly of the penalty due to the nature of how it was given. If Kolo had given Babel a right hook, no Arsenal fan would have complained at the referee or Liverpool. But I get what you are saying.

Hyperbole :D

RIP Jakey
27th August '08, 06:36 PM
Would have loved to see Eboue leave tbh

fixed. :D

Alfie
27th August '08, 07:09 PM
If Eboue left and Sagna got injured who would play RB?

Xtra P
27th August '08, 07:19 PM
If Eboue left and Sagna got injured who would play RB?

Toure

Alfie
27th August '08, 07:32 PM
Toure

Then who will play centre back?

The Messiah
27th August '08, 07:33 PM
Then who will play centre back?

Silvestre, Song or Djourou

Alfie
27th August '08, 07:37 PM
Silvestre, Song or Djourou

Ah forgot about Silvestre.

quality
27th August '08, 07:39 PM
Eboue couldn't be any worse at centre-back than he was in centre-midfield.

:laugh:

Alfie
27th August '08, 07:40 PM
Playing him in Midfield was just a failed experiment.

quality
27th August '08, 07:43 PM
I hope for Arsenal's sake it doesn't last as long as last season's playing him at ring-wing experiment. He was quality at right-back though a couple seasons back though.

Xtra P
27th August '08, 07:44 PM
Playing him in Midfield was just a failed experiment.

Playing him at all is a fail

The Messiah
27th August '08, 07:51 PM
It's getting to the point where my faith in Wenger is seriously wavering.

Why have you not bought replacements for Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra? At the beignning of last season CM was the one position we had an abundance of players. Now it seems that mis-management has made it our weakest area.

Why play Eboue in central midfield, when we have Alexandre Song, who has proven he can play there well, put in a good tackle and can do the donkey work necessary?

Why get rid of Senderos when for once, Arsenal fans were beginning to feel at ease with the depth of the squad at the back?

Why did you give Adebayor a pay rise for having one good season? Why not give him an incentive to have another good season promising a new contract in 2009?

There are too many errors....

Alfie
27th August '08, 08:19 PM
It's getting to the point where my faith in Wenger is seriously wavering.

Why have you not bought replacements for Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra? At the beignning of last season CM was the one position we had an abundance of players. Now it seems that mis-management has made it our weakest area.

Why play Eboue in central midfield, when we have Alexandre Song, who has proven he can play there well, put in a good tackle and can do the donkey work necessary?

Why get rid of Senderos when for once, Arsenal fans were beginning to feel at ease with the depth of the squad at the back?

Why did you give Adebayor a pay rise for having one good season? Why not give him an incentive to have another good season promising a new contract in 2009?

There are too many errors....

Add not sending Merida on loan to that list.

Hij
27th August '08, 09:06 PM
It's getting to the point where my faith in Wenger is seriously wavering.

Why have you not bought replacements for Flamini, Gilberto and Diarra? At the beignning of last season CM was the one position we had an abundance of players. Now it seems that mis-management has made it our weakest area.

Why play Eboue in central midfield, when we have Alexandre Song, who has proven he can play there well, put in a good tackle and can do the donkey work necessary?

Why get rid of Senderos when for once, Arsenal fans were beginning to feel at ease with the depth of the squad at the back?

Why did you give Adebayor a pay rise for having one good season? Why not give him an incentive to have another good season promising a new contract in 2009?

There are too many errors....

Ill wait till December before agreeing/disagreeing.