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BIGDON
8th January '12, 04:19 PM
5.40pm ITV1


What number will your club be in the draw?

1 Middlesbrough
2 Nottingham Forest or Leicester City
3 Manchester United
4 Dagenham & Redbridge or Millwall
5 Crawley Town
6 Notts County
7 Aston Villa
8 Tottenham Hotspur
9 Sheffield Wednesday or West Ham United
10 Milton Keynes Dons or Queens Park Rangers
11 Hull City
12 Southampton
13 Brighton & Hove Albion or Wrexham
14 Fulham
15 Birmingham City or Wolverhampton Wanderers
16 Norwich City
17 Arsenal or Leeds United
18 Derby County
19 Blackpool
20 Swindon Town
21 Swansea City
22 Macclesfield Town or Bolton Wanderers
23 Newcastle United
24 Everton
25 Sheffield United
26 Liverpool
27 Stoke City
28 Chelsea or Portsmouth
29 Watford
30 Peterborough United or Sunderland
31 West Bromwich Albion
32 Stevenage

*Ties to be played over the weekend of 28 January 2012. Match dates to be confirmed in due course. Ties may be arranged for Friday, Saturday, Sunday or Monday.

BIGLEE
8th January '12, 04:28 PM
Hope we get dag or millwall

Matt91
8th January '12, 05:15 PM
Spurs vs any league 1 or 2 team thanks and arsenal to get Utd

Julio Cesar
8th January '12, 05:19 PM
Cardiff, Brighton or Boro away hopefully.

NSF
8th January '12, 05:22 PM
arsenal to get Utd

http://threadbombing.com/data/media/24/spockorly.gif

BIGDON
8th January '12, 06:40 PM
here we go bros

chris89
8th January '12, 06:42 PM
Fuck it I want a big team tbh

Matt91
8th January '12, 06:42 PM
http://threadbombing.com/data/media/24/spockorly.gif

Can confirm I know what will happen, hopefully young Andros breaks Thierry's leg

NSF
8th January '12, 06:45 PM
Can confirm I know what will happen, hopefully young Andros breaks Thierry's legLol im not expecting a shock result or anything, nothing like when we last played at the Emirates anyway.

Jack 1017
8th January '12, 06:47 PM
Fuck it I want a big team tbh

.

Inshallah we get Spurs

Chelski QPR JamieQpr

:woah:

chris89
8th January '12, 06:47 PM
ffs MK Dons or QPR

GrimmyGrimGrim
8th January '12, 06:47 PM
QPR v Chelsea

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lswvacPsiV1qgfgyno1_250.gif

Julio Cesar
8th January '12, 06:47 PM
We got Chelsea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jack 1017
8th January '12, 06:48 PM
Arsenal Villa meh

NSF
8th January '12, 06:49 PM
Leeds -v- Aston Villa


:woah:

Jack 1017
8th January '12, 06:49 PM
Liverpool Man U :woah: Hij

Matt91
8th January '12, 06:49 PM
Can confirm I am happy with Watford

Looooololllll Liverpool got utd

chris89
8th January '12, 06:49 PM
:woah:

Julio Cesar
8th January '12, 06:50 PM
Great draw for us :evilgrin:

Jack 1017
8th January '12, 06:50 PM
I can confirm Sir Ale has stopped "donating" to these cup draw programmes

Matt91
8th January '12, 06:52 PM
Can confirm Liverpool are victims

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
8th January '12, 06:52 PM
inb4evramonkeychants

chris89
8th January '12, 06:52 PM
JamieQpr please confirm if you are actually in the 4th round yet?

Matt91
8th January '12, 06:53 PM
Looool

Draws pretty good all the shitty little teams have got other shitty little teams

Julio Cesar
8th January '12, 06:54 PM
JamieQpr please confirm if you are actually in the 4th round yet?

Cannot confirm, we are shit in the fa cup and our manager is not helping. Inshallah if Sparky takes charge we will make it to the promised land of the 4th round.

Brisboy84
8th January '12, 06:56 PM
Can confirm I know what will happen, hopefully young Andros breaks Thierry's leg

That's classy.


Leeds -v- Aston Villa

Heh, i admire your confidence! I'm confident we'll take care of you tomorrow though.

Possibly Arsenal v Villa... Could be worse i suppose.

Liverpool v Man Utd is fucking peak! :laugh:

chris89
8th January '12, 06:57 PM
Cannot confirm, we are shit in the fa cup and our manager is not helping. Inshallah if Sparky takes charge we will make it to the promised land of the 4th round.

I hope you get past the mighty MK Dons (Danielson) so we can show you what happens when you play us 11 vs 11

Also I agree it is not good when your manager is getting sent off for headbutting

NSF
8th January '12, 06:59 PM
Heh, i admire your confidence! I'm confident we'll take care of you tomorrow though.We sometimes show up in big games, its a shame we cant put that effort into our league games. Should be a good game either way, its win win for me anyway. If we win we've beat Arsenal, if we lose we end up with less fixtures for the season and concentrate on the league.

The Don
8th January '12, 07:01 PM
hopefully our players don't pussy out at loftus road this time

Matt91
8th January '12, 07:02 PM
That's classy.



Heh, i admire your confidence! I'm confident we'll take care of you tomorrow though.

Possibly Arsenal v Villa... Could be worse i suppose.

Liverpool v Man Utd is fucking peak! :laugh:

I do not care, lol arsenal fans talking about class isthisreallife.jpg the spurs cabbie jack wilshere spat on says hi, cunt

Brisboy84
8th January '12, 07:09 PM
We sometimes show up in big games, its a shame we cant put that effort into our league games. Should be a good game either way, its win win for me anyway. If we win we've beat Arsenal, if we lose we end up with less fixtures for the season and concentrate on the league.

Yeah that's a good way of looking at it. I think you'll be awkward for us like you were at the Emirates last season, but this time we'll win.


I do not care, lol arsenal fans talking about class isthisreallife.jpg the spurs cabbie jack wilshere spat on says hi, cunt

So football fans can't talk about class then? Sorry i didn't know there was a law on Arsenal fans talking about class.

Matt91
8th January '12, 07:11 PM
Yeah that's a good way of looking at it. I think you'll be awkward for us like you were at the Emirates last season, but this time we'll win.



So football fans can't talk about class then? Sorry i didn't know there was a law on Arsenal fans talking about class.

Thanks for being compliant.

Tony Starks
8th January '12, 07:18 PM
Suarez v Evra & Terry v Ferdinand pt2>>>>

Brisboy84
8th January '12, 07:19 PM
Thanks for being compliant.

No problem.

Hutch
8th January '12, 07:32 PM
MK dons next round.. Not bad.

United fixing draws again I see.

chris89
8th January '12, 07:41 PM
MK dons next round.. Not bad.

United fixing draws again I see.

:laugh:

Danielson
8th January '12, 07:47 PM
I hope you get past the mighty MK Dons (Danielson) so we can show you what happens when you play us 11 vs 11

Also I agree it is not good when your manager is getting sent off for headbutting

QPR vs Dons? Nice. It's a shame Baldock's @ West Ham now.

I hope we get the dons TBH.

chris89
8th January '12, 07:48 PM
QPR vs Dons? Nice. It's a shame Baldock's @ West Ham now.

3rd round replay mate, winner gets us at home

Danielson
8th January '12, 07:51 PM
3rd round replay mate, winner gets us at home

Nice. Just waiting on the highlights of the Portsmouth game to come on Chelsea TV. TBH they should be up immediately. *logs back in*

Going out on a Sunday when tonnes of football is on <<<<<

The Stig
8th January '12, 08:03 PM
Suarez v Evra & Terry v Ferdinand pt2>>>>

lol

Pristine Condition
8th January '12, 08:45 PM
http://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa65/LIKKZ_photos/isthisrael.gif

Plak
8th January '12, 08:51 PM
Spurs get Watford away Lex
nice easy tie to take us into the fifth round or even if we go out it save us some games as our second team will almost certainly play.

Matt91
8th January '12, 09:06 PM
Spurs get Watford away Lex
nice easy tie to take us into the fifth round or even if we go out it save us some games as our second team will almost certainly play.

Yeah I'm happy with that, will probably be the last of the kids we see this season but we'll have guys like Bale & Modric on the bench hopefully, was hoping the City game would be a draw so they have to play a replay before us

Alter E-ghost
8th January '12, 09:11 PM
liverpools a good draw lol.

cant wait.

Big 45
9th January '12, 07:21 PM
http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/its-a-conspiracy.jpg

Hij
9th January '12, 07:56 PM
YES!!!

Hij
9th January '12, 08:08 PM
Fergie didn't want no peace talks when he thought our next game was gonna be at Old Trafford, now his mouth piece Daniel Taylor is like "clubs to meet" :laugh: Fuck off, Evra's gonna get it the lying gobshite!

The Don
10th January '12, 06:16 PM
Suarez v Evra & Terry v Ferdinand pt2>>>>

swear our tie with them'll be 2 days before his court case?

wonder where his heads gna be at

Julio Cesar
10th January '12, 06:18 PM
Hughes better put out a good side vs MK Dons, really want to play Chelsea at home again :evilgrin:

MoneyMan
10th January '12, 06:20 PM
LFC vs Man U smfh 2 years in a row don't tell me this shitty draw is fucking random you corrupt cunts FUCK THE FA Johnny Gunz.gif

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
10th January '12, 06:36 PM
Fergie didn't want no peace talks when he thought our next game was gonna be at Old Trafford, now his mouth piece Daniel Taylor is like "clubs to meet" :laugh: Fuck off, Evra's gonna get it the lying gobshite!

You really are pathetic, Hij, honestly.

First of all, what peace talks? Fergie and Evra haven't done ANYTHING to incite this since Evra wrongly spoke to Canal+ 5 minutes after the match. Meanwhile Kenny Daglish and Liverpool have been releasing absurd statements, that included personal attacks on Evra's character, that were criticised by every single journalist you could imagine, including those who support Liverpool such as Tony Evans.

How is Evra a liar, you fucking prick? Your original stance on this is that Suarez should have had a 2 game ban, at least. I did ask you if you've since changed your mind, but I didn't get an answer. A few other guys on here also asked you questions, which you ignored. You later came into the the thread with some paraphrased rhetoric from RAWK and suggested that you were no longer going to be discussing the issue. "la la la la, I can't hear you guys, this is a conspiracy" would have been more succinct a post.

I've just emailed the local MP for the Anfield area, since he's the one pushing an inquiry into racism in football. I've told you this before, but I'll tell you again the same thing that I told him. The most important bit by far in the report, in my opinion is:


Mr. Evra made a claim to the referee that Suarez told him he kicked him "because you are black".

Mr. Suarez told Damien Comolli, in Spanish, that he said "because you are black".

Mr. Suarez told Dirk Kuyt, in Dutch, that he said "because you are black".

Mr. Suarez later claimed that both Mr. Comolli and Mr. Kuyt had misheard him.

One of them mishearing the exact same thing that they hadn't yet realised Mr. Evra had reported is absurd enough. Two of them mishearing the exact same thing, in two totally different languages, is pretty much an impossibility.

I've not heard a single Liverpool fan give an explanation for the above, because they can't. I've heard that Suarez speaks a different Spanish dialect to Comolli so there may have been a misunderstanding, but that's only addressing one small part of that issue, and even then Suarez has lived in Holland for the past 5 years and will have no doubt adapted to speaking mainland Spanish, rather than his Spanish speaking counterparts adapting to Rio De La Platan Spanish.

So as I said, your last post in the Suarez thread was equivalent to you holding your fingers in your hears and telling us that you can't hear anything.

Man the fuck up and realise that Suarez, almost certainly, told Evra "because you're black".

quality
10th January '12, 06:51 PM
I can confirm shots fired in this thread.

OG1
10th January '12, 07:05 PM
:woah:

Hij
10th January '12, 07:20 PM
For clarity, I said that ultimately if Suarez had used a term that could, with ambiguity refer to the colour of someones skin, that wasn't acceptable over here, against FA rules and without any other corroborating actual evidence for what was said, he should receive a minimal ban- with statements released that there was no way of proving the way in which the word was said, but that they have learnt that culturally the word does take on a different meaning in South America and that steps will have to be taken to make sure that this doesn't get out of control in future and that players will need to be educated on the subject to make sure that everyone knows the word, from that point onwards is unacceptable regardless of context or cultural connotations. We've set a precedent that no-one has to fucking hear, see or witness any racial behaviour, that you can simply cry racism and get someone's reputation dragged through the mud at the behest of the FA.

Afterall, knowing the way football banter works, I wouldn't be nearly surprised enough if Suarez or a Liverpool play was racially abused against the Mancs next time up, because who the hell is going to report it? It would look ridiculous. Sticks and stones.

I've read the report. It deals with probabilities and the balance of them- I haven't seen proof of anything at all, your main proof seems to be the basis of what two people have said - only hearsay, conjecture and subjectivity - released on New Years Eve and copy and pasted into more articles by the press. Investigative journalists? Don't make me laugh. 99% haven't bothered to read it indepth, why would they? Any possible article that goes against the grain would be viewed as inciting racism, or standing up for racism or some other such steaming shite as that.

On the balance of probabilities, this is my version in less than 115 pages of shite. Evra who even argued over the tossing of the coin at the start of the game, who was going mental throughout and not distressed enough to kiss his bade aggressively towards the Liverpool fans, and who also dived over Suarez to try and get him given a yellow card back, was incensed during and after the game. Suarez referred to Evra using a term that Fabio, Rafael and Hernandez have used with Evra (it speaks volumes Hernandez wanted to testify in defence of Suarez but wasn't allowed). Evra knew the context of the term as he's heard it before and has had it used by his team mates. But no that's not good enough, there's mileage in this, we need to turn up the gas, let's play the race card, it's the only fucking ace you can lay where no one seems to give a fucking if theres any proper or real evidence, so long as we send a message out that racism is bad. Frustrated he speaks to Mr Ferguson after the game. Suddenly he is on TV on Canal and then they are also outside the referees office claiming the word ****** was used, 10 times.

He said the word ****** was used 10 times. A word invented to be horrible, a word that is completely and utterly unacceptable and known as far as I am aware the world over. Why did he claim the word ****** was used? Explain away this complete and utter barefaced lie for me please and explain why the rest of his story wasn't questioned, based on his original lie from the outset. Because seemingly we go from there to "Oh yeah it probably was Negro actually because that keeps the heat on Suarez" and "Oh yeah it probably was 5 times actually because I can't fucking count" to "Ten times is just a French cultural expression" - the irony of the last statement actually had me rolling. Shitehawk journalists who don't want to veer from the party line and Man United fans can all find the inconsistencies with Suarez' statement - but amazingly it appears none have the balls to point out Evras.

Tell me why Evra had the footage played on a TV screen and was able to walk them through the footage giving his evidence........ and Suarez wasn't given the same benefit? But then they latched onto little bits he got wrong from memory? Does that strike you as a hearing that is fair? As a hearing that wants to make sure that the right verdict is arrived at? Or one that would really rather like someone to get punished for racism as it helps them politically.

Regardless of what Suarez said or didn't say, I know in my heart, and you know in yours, that you only lie to such extremes if there is doubt in your mind regarding the actual offence (if any took place). He knew that he must add more perceived slight on top of it to make it more legitimate and to make sure nobody was in any doubt of the extremity. But why? Why say ******? Why say ten times? Why didn't he say "He used the word negro five times" or "He used the word negro once". I mean the only person I can tell for certain wasn't lying at at least one point is Suarez as he even admits to using the word. The unfortunate cunt probably thought "Oh Evra probably misheard me I'll tell the truth" - and then he gets knived by the FA, the media and the general public.

The whole thing is a clusterfuck. By the law, I admit that Suarez is technically guilty- but he's only technically guilty, the way the FA have gone on, and the way Evra has kept his mouth shut makes he so fucking angry. On the balance of probabilities I bet Evra knew exactly what he was doing when he chose to take offence to the word despite hearing it often enough before, I bet he knew exactly what he was doing when he went directly to the press to report it, with Ferguson probably standing in the shadows ushering him in. "You'll be able to see it on the cameras" he said. "Ten times" he said. Did we fuck. Tell me, if the word Negro just means black, why does the FA report say that Suarez said "Blackie blackie blackie"? The changing of the word to "Blackie" seems rather strange, it almost appears as if they are trying to make the alleged incident seem worse.

Ultimately, it's not even Evra or United who have turned this into the monstrosity it has become, and don't worry, we played our part as well. Because to be frank with all respect intended - this is hardly anywhere near the race crimes that take place up and down the country in pubs, buses, trams or other football grounds- but its held up amongst sports journalists as a case of horrendous racial abuse but its held up as a beacon of the "shameful" way Liverpool have fallen and the way in which they are now influencing others to be racist- what a horrendous crock of shit.

As for the lines regarding Comolli and Kuyt you sent to Steve Rotheram (congratulations by the way, going that extra yard in your crusade against persecution and racism which I am sure is that the forefront of your mind while writing, despite the fact that it is utterly irrelevant as a guilty charge has already handed down with an impossibility of appeal) - would you like to make reference to why three Manchester United players said something completely different in their evidence over what Evra said in your letter?

And I'll even tackle your point because I'm a G like that.

Here are the two different terms.

Por que Negro - Because Black
Porque Negro - Why Black

Both sound similar. But it's definitely not possible for them to misinterpret him is it? In two different languages? That makes it all the more likely ffs.

I note that Evra and the FA's statements both contained the phrase "I don't believe Suarez is a racist" - but Evra, the FA nor United published any such public statement away from the kangaroo court or to the press to quell the mass shit storm and righteous indignation from all corners of the country all coming together with mock moral fucking outrage and writing shit like "Klanfield" on their Twitter or Facebook accounts - which to be frank using the Ku Klux Klan to score points actually shows just a great a lack of respect for the racism issue as any slight of race itself. Ferguson and Evra let Suarez get dragged from pillor to post and strung up by his balls and said nothing.

Ferguson fucking knew and all he cares about is winning football matches that Suarez would get a nightmare game at Old Trafford and it would help in the need for 3 points. Liverpool made the first move to try and sort it out, perhaps get the two players together, show people that "racism" can be overcome, to stop Liverpool fans getting fucking padlocks thrown at them outside Old Trafford like every year and he effectively said "fuck off lads no chance" - but as soon as those two balls came out of the melting pot and into the fire there was Daniel Fucking Taylor, one of Fergusons press lapdogs seemingly reporting that infact afterall you wouldn't mind coming to some arrangement to stop Evra getting abused at Anfield instead of Suarez getting abused at Old Trafford. And I can't fucking wait, believe I can't fucking wait for the papers the day after the game - we'll boo Evra and we'll all be labelled nasty nasty nasty racists - who knows Ku Klux Klanfield will probably be the backpage headline of the Daily Mirror - or better yet the Mail or the Mirror.


"The chairman and directors of Oldham Athletic Football Club would like to thank Liverpool Football Club and officers of the Merseyside Police for their concerns and painstaking efforts in investigating the circumstances surrounding the incident involving Tom Adeyemi," the statement read."Excellent communication has been maintained and the club and player have been notified of every detail during the progress of the investigation.


"The professional standards applied throughout have been praiseworthy."
The statement continued: "The club would also like to thank the numerous fans from Liverpool and Oldham, and also those from around the country who have sent letters of support to Tom.

"This type of incident is contained within a minority and should not deflect from a superb match that was enjoyed by both sets of club officials and fans."

So there's our clubs reaction to potential racism, from the club that suffered's perspective. No-one on here might not like Kenny Dalglish, he might be a moody cunt, but if I can smell bullshit and he calls it, and there is still no evidence other than what Suarez has admitted, then Evra can go and fuck himself, as can you.


You can call me a prick and pathetic all you want you inbred cunt because you only ever signed up to Grime Forum to discuss the Suarez case, not grime, probably after finding the forum via google after searching about Suarez/Evra, clicking on the link, going through the sign up process and the captcha, checking your email anad clicking the link and entering the sports room to make sure you righted what you saw as a wrong on a message board you weren't registered for yet. Totally not pathetic yourself son.


Join Date: December 2011

Now fuck off.

Hij
10th January '12, 08:55 PM
The pitiful ballad of Suarez- Evra was prefaced by prejudice from the outset. Not, ironically, in the (allegedly) racially charged cauldron of Anfield , back in October of last year but in that the Football Association were minded to, and perhaps were duty bound to, consider the wider impact of the outcome of such a high-profile case for their admirable and correct ‘kick racism out’ campaign.


It is obvious, that unless Luis Suarez’s accuser, Patrice Evra, could be shown unequivocally to have bare-faced lied, that there would be far worse repercussions for the sport and the FA if justice was miscarried against Evra rather than Suarez.


Had the FA exonerated the Liverpool man, by implication humiliated Evra and then found that final position challenged and criticised, the outcome would be a public relations debacle for Lancaster Gate and something of a hammer blow to the credibility of the anti-racism campaign. Headline writers and commentators would have wondered aloud if an old-school white English FA had again swept another example of football’s dysfunctionality under their very conservative carpet.


Simply put, the three ‘wise men’ at the FA’s hearing, could not afford to get it wrong where Evra was concerned, but doing Luis Suarez a disservice would be far less likely to provoke as much of a backlash from any quarter, bar Liverpool 4.


And so it has transpired. In a case where there is simply no evidence for the plaintiff, save for his own testimony, one would have thought it reasonable that the press and various experts at least contemplate, after the denouement, that this one could’ve ‘gone either way’.


No one man or woman is in a position to say with certainty what truly happened between Suarez and Evra. Let’s be reminded, for the umpteenth time – nobody saw or heard Luis Suarez racially abuse Patrice Evra. Though the FA found for Evra, on the balance of ‘probability‘, an alternative scenario is entirely possible and arguably at least as probable. Yet the world outside of Anfield’s besieged perimeter now sees this as a shut case, the Liverpool player clearly a guilty man and the club complicit fools, who should abandon any notion that the FA may have mishandled this situation and urge their charge to apologise.

Of course, we shouldn’t be surprised. There is a long tradition in this country of accepting adjudications at face value in favour of the establishment, given by serious looking white men in formal attire. Dissent often only ever comes from the shadows and criticisms in an immediate aftermath of a verdict are largely suppressed by our mainstream media.


For the purposes of unravelling the Suarez-Evra entanglement the FA have effectively assumed the role of prosecutor, judge and jury, all in one neat(ish) package. Their media-acclaimed 115-page opus is in reality a document written by an FA-appointed panel congratulating itself on a job well done. It is akin to the prosecution in a trial chronicling how its arguments were, in fact, the better ones. A prophesy truly self-fulfilled.


The FA brought this case before their very own quasi-judicial panel. In no sense would it ever have been in their interests to deem the prosecution fallacious and ill judged once they had set this train in motion. The whole process was clearly self serving and loaded regardless of what one makes of the rights and wrongs of the actual case. Indeed, unless one views the FA as a bastion of fairness and rectitude this can only be seen as an extremely flawed way of attaining justice.


Hot on the heels of clashes with FIFA in a variety of arenas, the Football Association would not have allowed themselves to be portrayed in any way as being ‘soft’ on racism. Better there be an unfair flogging of an innocent ‘non-racist’, than risk being seen to be being lightweight on the ‘kick it (racism) out’ platform.


On a world-wide stage there is a kind of morality in that reasoning, albeit in something of a crude ‘ends justify the means’ sort of way. Undoubtedly in ‘hanging’ Suarez the FA has sent out a clear message of intolerance towards racism. That in the long term may prove to the best outcome, when all have finally skulked back to their respective corners.


In one outpost of the globe, though, they have affected an entirely opposite outcome. For many red Liverpudlians (and the football club’s wider constituency of many races and creeds) what the FA have demonstrated is not that they actually take accusations of racism seriously, but that claiming to be ‘not a racist’ is a political stance, rather than the moral one it should be. They have shown that the issue of ‘stamping out racism’ is there to be used and manipulated to suit agendas rather than to further the actual cause.


Of course, despite it being clear that the FA would always be minded to find in favour of the plaintiff, Patrice Evra, for this political expediency, it is now possible to marvel at just how the Football Association set about achieving their ultimate grandstanding goal. Their 115 pages of ‘written reasons’ is something of a masterpiece of contrivance and contradictions. It would take, though, at least a further 115 pages to do analysis of the report complete justice. Let’s suffice here with a focus on two of the prime considerations that the FA’s panel afforded themselves in reaching their chosen verdict.
In a case where there simply were no witnesses to the actual alleged events, bar the protagonists themselves, the adjudicators were left with the need to demonstrate that one man’s word was worth more than another’s. Witness credibility, then, became the order of the day. In parallel with this assessment, they also chose to assess the probability of one perceived narrative versus an alternative.


Pages of discourse are expended on subtle denigration of Luis Suarez. He is viewed, entirely subjectively, as unreliable. They simply didn’t like the cut of his jib in his testimony given in Spanish and broken English, as opposed to Evra’s upright and composed evidence delivered in the FA panel’s native tongue. Small inconsistencies in Suarez’s statements are magnified and served up as evidence of a shifty deceitful character. Evra by contrast is forgiven several examples of hyperbole, exaggeration, outright lie and offensive behaviour – all written off as ‘figures of speech’, as consequences of duress or natural and forgivable human errors.


The following from the report, as commentary on Liverpool Football Club’s assertion that Evra had contrived the charges, is choice:
It (LFC’s lawyer’s conclusion) did not accord with our assessment of Mr Evra, as a clear, calm, and consistent witness. We considered it improbable that Mr Evra would act in such a dishonest way in order to damage the reputation of a fellow professional whose footballing skills he admires, with who he had had no previous run-ins, and who he does not think is a racist.


This is the calm Mr Evra who disputes the outcome of the toss of coin with the referee at the game’s outset, the same man who on about 56 minutes reacts to the faintest of contacts with Luis Suarez by crumpling to the turf and writhing as if mortally wounded; the same honest chap who enhances Dirk Kuyt’s angry request for him to ‘stand up’ into a claim that he said ‘stand up you fucking prick’.


The sensitive and righteous Mr Evra, then minutes later, when awaiting the delivery of a corner into the penalty area he is defending, still ‘in shock’ (according to his credible testimony) at the contact with Suarez five minutes prior, decides to further an enquiry as to why he had been so allegedly wronged at that fateful moment of earlier contact, by referencing Suarez’s ‘sister’s pussy’.


The FA present an interesting paradox whereby on the one hand the said reference to Suarez’s sister’s vagina could actually just be interpreted as a figure speech as tame as exclaiming ‘fucking hell!’ This sentence “Concha de tu hermana, porque me diste in golpe” is translated by the panel as ‘fucking hell, why did you kick me ?’ Maybe They should have gone for ‘oh blimey !’ or ‘oh crikey!’ instead of the less charitable translation of words that literally translate as ‘your sister’s pussy/cunt’ .


The paradox is that on the one hand this exclamation by Evra is presented as a near harmless enquiry , and an example of how noble and honest (and crucially, credible) Evra is by actually fessin’ up to using naughty words, but on the other hand we are expected to view the force and anger of his question as providing the motive for the mixed race, ‘non racist’ (according to the report) Suarez to suddenly abandon all his egalitarian principles and launch into a tirade of racist invective that would put a passing Klansman to shame. This is the contradictory scenario that the FA’s panel expect all to agree was the most ‘probable’ turn of events.


Evra in his testimony re-houses goal posts at every turn, yet the report tries to demonstrate alleged inconsistencies in third party’s testimonies to demonstrate that Suarez was actually the serial story changer. Evra claims at different stages, that he was called ‘black’, ‘a fucking black’, ‘a ******’, ‘a fucking prick’, and loses count of how many times he does so, with varying statements totting the racist epithet count up at five, seven or 10, depending on Evra’s mood.


Rather than noting that Evra’s eyebrow-raising and later retracted claim, that he was racistly abused ’10 times’ was actually a deliberate distortion and a significant mark against his credibility, the panel accept a spurious assertion that ‘dix fois’ (10 times) is just a figure of speech in French. Scurrilously the panel claim that LFC’s Damien Comolli backs that assertion, as native Frenchman, in his own testimony. Flipping back a few dozen pages to Comolli’s testimony it’s apparent that he said nothing of the sort. Comolli quite categorically states that while one might say to a child something akin to ‘I’ve told you ten times already’ as an exaggeration to make a point, in anything more adult the relevant degree of accuracy would be applied, and the Evra-Suarez affair, was just such an occasion.


As the report and its repetitive narrative unfold throughout the 115 pages, a clear picture is painted of Patrice Evra as a man losing control of himself throughout the course of a testing and high-octane sporting encounter. His increasing petulance is finally marked by the referee, who on about 68 minutes books Evra for a minor act of violence against Liverpool’s Dirk Kuyt.


At this juncture Evra (to any degree of corroborated certainty at any rate) first raises the issue of racism with the referee. Such is Evra’s lack of composure that his own team mate, Ryan Giggs, offers uncontested testimony that he warned Evra that if he didn’t calm down that he faced being sent off altogether.
A distinctly plausible (probable ?) picture emerges, for even a half-interested skimming reader, of a man, in Evra, who is wound up from the get-go about captaining his team in this key match, and who is extremely wary of a dangerous opponent in Luis Suarez. He will have known full well (before the outset) that the Uruguayan was the danger man that he and his fellow defenders had to stop. At all costs, it seems. The process starts in that moment just before the hour when he attempts to get Suarez disciplined by deceitful means (hugely exaggerating injury, as the video evidence clearly shows), and builds and builds from there.


At the end of a difficult afternoon, Evra leaves the pitch a frustrated and angry player, aware that his team had finished a key game on the back foot, and that he as captain, had not acquitted himself with the dignity and composure required of his status.


He knows that at some point Suarez used the word ‘negro’ to him, and he cares little as to its intent or meaning, but recognises enough ‘n’s’ and ‘g’s’ and vowels to lay an easy (faux) racism charge on Suarez. He suspects that he only needs a camera to have captured Suarez mouth ‘negro’ and he’s got the Liverpool forward bang to rights. If that happens, Evra is a clear victim, and quite possibly his yellow card would be rescinded as a consequence, and his petulant nervy performance put into a better light.


Evra then decamps from the fray on 90 minutes and within a short space of time has in frustration presented a picture of himself as the victim of abuse to colleagues and a French TV crew, rather than mentally disintegrating aggressor the match day cameras capture. Once he has set a pernicious train in motion there is little turning back for him or the unfortunate Suarez, who finds himself collateral damage in Evra’s mind game.


The above is simply an alternative scenario that the FA’s panel were loath to engage. Perhaps what actually happened was simply that which Suarez credibly (according to the FA’s language experts) outlined in his version of events:


The experts concluded their observations on Mr Suarez’s account as follows. If Mr Suarez used the word “negro” as described by Mr Suarez, this would not be interpreted as either offensive or offensive in racial terms in Uruguay and Spanish-speaking America more
Therefore, he does not deny use of a word that could potentially cast him in a bad light (no credit is given to Suarez for this admission, whereas in Evra’s case he is ennobled by admitting to talking about Suarez’s sister’s pussy), only that he intended its use in any sense other than ‘why, bro?’ or ‘why pal?’ (‘por que negro?). The continuous and wilful translation of ‘negro’ as literally meaning ‘black’ is at minimum disingenuous on the part of the FA and the panel.
Aside from assessing credibility and probability, a key tenet upon which the FA chose to damn Suarez, was by his own word. They sought assistance in this execution from their expert witnesses at Manchester University. Interestingly though these experts note that in a ‘sneering’ situation the word ‘negro’ could not be applied benignly, they do not conclude that Suarez has to have actually been sneering in this case. To ascertain this, was not their brief. They conclude that Suarez’s version of events is linguistically entirely plausible, and that it was quite possible for him to use the ‘negro’ term inoffensively.
The experts concluded their observations on Mr Suarez’s account as follows. If Mr Suarez used the word “negro” as described by Mr Suarez, this would not be interpreted as either offensive or offensive in racial terms in Uruguay and Spanish-speaking America more generally.

The experts go further and conclude that Evra’s version of events in one of the exchanges, in particular, lacked credibility:
Mr Evra then asked “Why did you kick me”. According to Mr Evra, Mr Suarez replied “porque tu eres negro” (“because you’re black”). According to Mr Suarez, he replied “It was a normal foul”.
They expert testimony goes on to crucially observe :
The experts considered it worth noting that the phrase “porque tu eres negro” struck both of them as slightly unusual. In this instance, a direct racial slur would more likely have been something like “porque eres un negro de mierda” [because you are a shitty black].


Credibility should not have been Patrice Evra’s strong suit in the panel’s summation, nor should it have been deemed probable that in a crowded goalmouth, full of players, witnessed by cameras, and within the public’s earshot that one man could issue a volley of racist abuse at another, and it go entirely unheard. It simply defies belief.


The panel found it improbable that the non pejorative take on the word ‘negro’ could possibly be used in a confrontational situation and contented themselves with expert evidence that use of the word ‘negro’ in a argumentative context could only be racist.


Not possible then in English to angrily ask a man to ‘calm down pal’, or ‘leave it out mate’, or (to a woman) request that she ‘shut up love’ ? The word in each case that evokes rapport or endearment can be used slightly sarcastically but without its use implying that a ‘pal’ or a ‘mate’ is a bad thing in itself.
Suarez may have been ironically using an endearing or matey term with Evra, precisely because Evra was so patently not worthy of endearment or friendship, at that moment. Its use, in this context, would naturally have nothing to do with skin colour.


Of course, it can’t be ruled out that Suarez did say precisely that which Evra claimed he did (in one of his accounts) and that (the FA deemed) non racist Mr Suarez did just suffer a brain aberration and become a bad racist for one day, and that one day only.


It’s quite possible that he has utterly lied through his teeth and fooled all at Liverpool Football Club, and made mugs of supporters who chose to pay him the respect of looking at his situation beyond the mere two dimensions chosen by a last media. It’s possible, but it isn’t a very credible and the scenario isn’t highly probable, unless one approaches the whole affair with eyes only for the literality of the FA’s report and with prejudice firmly aforethought.

187
10th January '12, 09:02 PM
revzy has owned you in this suarez vs negrito debate bare times Hij allow it

GrimmyGrimGrim
10th January '12, 09:03 PM
Updated Fifa 12 stats are a joke:

Arsenal:
Defending 83
Attacking 84

Aston Villa:
Defending 76
Attacking 74

Blackburn Rovers:
Defending 73
Attacking 72

Bolton Wanderers:
Defending 72
Attacking 74

Chelsea:
Defending 84
Attacking 82

Everton:
Defending 79
Attacking 77

Fulham:
Defending 76
Attacking 78

Liverpool:
Defending Racism
Attacking Woman and Minorities

Manchester City:
Defending 85
Attacking 86

Manchester United:
Defending 83
Attacking 84

Newcastle United:
Defending 79
Attacking 80

Norwich City:
Defending 75
Attacking 77

Queens Park Rangers:
Defending 74
Attacking 73

Stoke City:
Defending 80
Attacking 79

Sunderland:
Defending 76
Attacking 77

Swansea City:
Defending 76
Attacking 73

Tottenham Hotspur:
Defending 81
Attacking 84

West Bromwich Albion:
Defending 73
Attacking 76

Wigan Athletic:
Defending 74
Attacking 73

Wolverhampton Wanderers:
Defending 75
Attacking 72

NE63
10th January '12, 10:49 PM
I am delighted with our home draw against Boro.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
10th January '12, 10:55 PM
Hij, Kuyt and Comolli both heard the exact same thing (when translated to English).

You've only bothered to explain how Comolli could have misunderstood it, which I already accounted for in my original post.


revzy has owned you in this suarez vs negrito debate bare times Hij allow it

.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
10th January '12, 11:07 PM
Also this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink)is responsible for you Liverpool fans all thinking one thing and everyone else thinking the opposite.

It's not a conspiracy.

MoneyMan
10th January '12, 11:45 PM
revzy you make some valid points but why are you acting like this makes all Liverpool fans intrinsically bad people, are they the only football club ever to have had a racist element? In reality, every other set of supporters would (and do) morph into the same paranoid tribal entity Liverpool are now sadly in.

which reminds me, how many games did everyone's favourite hero captain England get banned for?