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Pristine Condition
8th August '08, 12:10 AM
Carrying on from the other thread about English Players

I was wondering how many players from the England Squad are actually World Class, because the term gets thrown around far too easily nowadays.

I can only think of two players, that I would consider World Class and they are Rio Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard.

Now think about how many Spainish players, who won Euro 2008 and who are World Class. They have at least 1 player in every department, I'd call World Class!!!!

What are your thoughts on the matter considering the following players have also been called up to the England squad within the last twelve months:


Goalkeepers

Scott Carson
Robert Green
Chris Kirkland
David James
Joe Hart
Joe Lewis

Defenders

Rio Ferdinand
Wayne Bridge
Glen Johnson
Jonathan Woodgate
Phil Jagielka
Stephen Warnock
David Wheater
Sol Campbell
Ashley Cole
Phil Neville
John Terry
Wes Brown
Micah Richards
Matthew Upson
Nicky Shorey
Steven Taylor

Midfielders

David Beckham
Steven Gerrard
Gareth Barry
Stewart Downing
David Bentley
Ashley Young
Tom Huddlestone
Frank Lampard
Joe Cole
Owen Hargreaves
Kieron Dyer
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Michael Carrick

Strikers

Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch
Jermain Defoe
Theo Walcott
Dean Ashton
Michael Owen
Emile Heskey
Alan Smith
Andrew Johnson
Darren Bent

Eric Cantona
8th August '08, 12:14 AM
Rio Ferdinand, John Terry & Steven Gerrard are World Class

Rooney will soon reach that level.

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 12:55 AM
Beckham in his prime was definately, Ferdinand and Gerrard I agree with. Terry has fallen off after his injury and relys a lot more on dirtyness and bullying strikers. Rooney is well on his if he is not already.

Famous?
8th August '08, 12:59 AM
Beckham in his prime, Rooney eventually...that's it. A lot of good players, let's not forget the term WORLD CLASS means to be mentioned in the same sentence as Pele, Maradona, Zidane, etc...a lot of these supposed players are nothing on them...Bobby Moore Vs. Rio or Terry?? Bobby Moore is the only winner...

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 01:10 AM
Best of all time and World class are 2 seperate issues, World Class implies they can be considered some of the best in the world at the moment.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:10 AM
Their are alot less world class players than people think, they don't come along very often, people need to stop using that term so loosely, alot of players are very good but not world class!

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:14 AM
Rooney & Wallcott have the potential to be world class but are far from it at this point in time!

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 01:18 AM
I dunno about Walcott he'll have to do a lot more for me to think that

Famous?
8th August '08, 01:19 AM
Best of all time and World class are 2 seperate issues, World Class implies they can be considered some of the best in the world at the moment.

How can you be world class AT THE MOMENT? So in 10 years you will/won't be world class?

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 01:22 AM
How can you be world class AT THE MOMENT? So in 10 years you will/won't be world class?

nah they won't, unless they're really young atm they'll probably be retired. We'll say he used to be world class, doesn't mean he's one of the best ever. Ronaldo used to be world class is he now?

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:23 AM
I dunno about Walcott he'll have to do a lot more for me to think that

I said potential!

ZDOT
8th August '08, 01:25 AM
King

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:25 AM
Form is temporary but class is permanant, once a player has reached world class levels, its a permanent stamp, he might lose form or get old but he will always be known as world class i.e Ronaldo(the brazillian one)

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 01:27 AM
I said potential!

yeah man I know, I don't know if he has yet.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:34 AM
yeah man I know, I don't know if he has yet.

Da hell??

You don't even think he has the potential?

Jakey your buzzin fam, look up the word potential!

Famous?
8th August '08, 01:37 AM
Ronaldo was one of the best of all time...the highest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup with 15 goals, 2 world cup winners medals, three FIFA World Player of the Year...393 games and 276 goals...a badman...

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 01:42 AM
Da hell??

You don't even think he has the potential?

Jakey your buzzin fam, look up the word potential!

If the player has potential to be world class it means that have it in them to acheive world class status, not every player has that and Walcott hasn't shown me anything that makes me think he will be world class so far.

1: existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality <potential benefits>

I don't know if Walcott is capable/has the capability to be world class. If I did I would say he has the potential. I don't see whats wrong with what I'm saying.

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 01:43 AM
Ronaldo was one of the best of all time...the highest goalscorer in the history of the World Cup with 15 goals, 2 world cup winners medals, three FIFA World Player of the Year...393 games and 276 goals...a badman...

Yeah he was world class but he isn't anymore, he was one of the best ever in his prime.

Ida Kyoya
8th August '08, 01:43 AM
None. England are completely rubbish.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 02:01 AM
If the player has potential to be world class it means that have it in them to acheive world class status, not every player has that and Walcott hasn't shown me anything that makes me think he will be world class so far.

1: existing in possibility : capable of development into actuality <potential benefits>

I don't know if Walcott is capable/has the capability to be world class. If I did I would say he has the potential. I don't see whats wrong with what I'm saying.

So that amazing run against liverpool didn't make you think to yourself "Mmmm??? this kid has world class potentail?"

How many players have you seen do that especially at that age?

Im not saying he is world class im saying he could become world class in the future & his potential is clear to see.

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 02:13 AM
So that amazing run against liverpool didn't make you think to yourself "Mmmm??? this kid has world class potentail?"

How many players have you seen do that especially at that age?

Im not saying he is world class im saying he could become world class in the future.

I know he's gonna be good, but World class is different. Only time will tell.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 02:19 AM
I know he's gonna be good, but World class is different. Only time will tell.

He might not even become good, he could fade out like jeffers but the point im making is that he has shown flashes of brilliants which tells me that he has world class potential inside him, its up to him to realise it but the potentail is clearly there!

RIP Jakey
8th August '08, 02:27 AM
He might not even become good, he could fade out like jeffers but the point im making is that he has shown flashes of brilliants which tells me that he has world class potential inside him, its up to him to realise it but the potentail is clearly there!

Yeah I agree with most of what you're saying

GrimePays
8th August '08, 03:02 AM
ferdinand + gerrard - that is it

Eric Cantona
8th August '08, 03:04 AM
Rio Ferdinand & Steven Gerrard are defiantly World Class.

I don't think anyone can deny they are to be fair.

Seven
8th August '08, 09:24 AM
Carrying on from the other thread about English Players

I was wondering how many players from the England Squad are actually World Class, because the term gets thrown around far too easily nowadays.

I can only think of two players, that I would consider World Class and they are Rio Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard.

Now think about how many Spainish players, who won Euro 2008 and who are World Class. They have at least 1 player in every department, I would call World Class!!!!

What are your thoughts on the matter considering the following players have also been called up to the England squad within the last twelve months:


Goalkeepers

Scott Carson
Robert Green
Chris Kirkland
David James
Joe Hart
Joe Lewis

Defenders

Rio Ferdinand
Wayne Bridge
Glen Johnson
Jonathan Woodgate
Phil Jagielka
Stephen Warnock
David Wheater
Sol Campbell
Ashley Cole
Phil Neville
John Terry
Wes Brown
Micah Richards
Matthew Upson
Nicky Shorey
Steven Taylor

Midfielders

David Beckham
Steven Gerrard
Gareth Barry
Stewart Downing
David Bentley
Ashley Young
Tom Huddlestone
Frank Lampard
Joe Cole
Owen Hargreaves
Kieron Dyer
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Michael Carrick

Strikers

Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch
Jermain Defoe
Theo Walcott :D
Dean Ashton
Michael Owen
Emile Heskey
Alan Smith
Andrew Johnson
Darren Bent

.

Seven
8th August '08, 09:26 AM
Carrying on from the other thread about English Players

I was wondering how many players from the England Squad are actually World Class, because the term gets thrown around far too easily nowadays.

I can only think of two players, that I would consider World Class and they are Rio Ferdinand and Steven Gerrard.

Now think about how many Spainish players, who won Euro 2008 and who are World Class. They have at least 1 player in every department, I would call World Class!!!!

What are your thoughts on the matter considering the following players have also been called up to the England squad within the last twelve months:


Goalkeepers

Scott Carson
Robert Green
Chris Kirkland
David James
Joe Hart
Joe Lewis

Defenders

Rio Ferdinand
Wayne Bridge
Glen Johnson
Jonathan Woodgate
Phil Jagielka
Stephen Warnock
David Wheater
Sol Campbell
Ashley Cole
Phil Neville
John Terry
Wes Brown
Micah Richards
Matthew Upson
Nicky Shorey
Steven Taylor

Midfielders

David Beckham
Steven Gerrard
Gareth Barry
Stewart Downing
David Bentley
Ashley Young
Tom Huddlestone
Frank Lampard
Joe Cole
Owen Hargreaves
Kieron Dyer
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Michael Carrick

Strikers

Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch
Jermain Defoe
Theo Walcott
Dean Ashton
Michael Owen
Emile Heskey
Alan Smith
Andrew Johnson
Darren Bent

more critical opinion

Grimes
8th August '08, 09:30 AM
England have a lot of world class players more than teams like germany,portugual,france but they do better than us

Nine Bar
8th August '08, 10:29 AM
World class id say

Rio Ferdinand, Steven Gerrard, Jhon Terry, David Beckham, Frank Lampard and Wayne Rooney and Joe Cole and David James. I think any of these bar maybe Lampard and maye Cole could walk in to any team in the world.

Edit: forgot Ashley Cole

Grimes
8th August '08, 10:32 AM
Rio,Terry,Gerrard,Beckham,Lampard,Rooney,Ashley cole can all walk into any team

Pristine Condition
8th August '08, 10:39 AM
Best of all time and World class are 2 seperate issues, World Class implies they can be considered some of the best in the world at the moment.

exactly, which is why I made this thread. People get these terms mixed up


I dunno about Walcott he'll have to do a lot more for me to think that


He might not even become good, he could fade out like jeffers but the point im making is that he has shown flashes of brilliants which tells me that he has world class potential inside him, its up to him to realise it but the potentail is clearly there!

Every player can show moments of brilliants.

ZDOT
8th August '08, 11:03 AM
certain people are blind in here if they think james is world class

Xtra P
8th August '08, 12:16 PM
exactly, which is why I made this thread. People get these terms mixed up





Every player can show moments of brilliants.

Yeah but its the players who do it on a regular basis who I consider world class.

Pristine Condition
8th August '08, 12:20 PM
Yeah but its the players who do it on a regular basis who I consider world class.

I rest my case, since when does Walcott show that on a regular basis ...?

Grimes
8th August '08, 12:37 PM
YOU can't have world class potential

'nuum general
8th August '08, 12:41 PM
Ferdinand
Terry
Gerrard
Lampard

they are currently englands world class players. Beckham & owen were both world class in their prime.

Rooney
Walcott
Richards
Young

They are the ones with the potential to become world class imo

Grimes
8th August '08, 12:43 PM
Being a Supersub does not render you world class

A football matchs begins at 0 and ends at 90

Xtra P
8th August '08, 12:44 PM
I rest my case, since when does Walcott show that on a regular basis ...?


Since when did I say Wallcott was world class?

Xtra P
8th August '08, 12:45 PM
YOU can't have world class potential

Thats your opionion but I beg to differ.

Pristine Condition
8th August '08, 12:55 PM
exactly, which is why I made this thread. People get these terms mixed up


Every player can show moments of brilliants.


Since when did I say Wallcott was world class?

ooo my bad, you was referring to my 1st comment

The Messiah
8th August '08, 12:56 PM
What are your thoughts on the matter considering the following players have also been called up to the England squad within the last twelve months:

Goalkeepers

Scott Carson
Robert Green
Chris Kirkland
David James
Joe Hart
Joe Lewis

Defenders

Rio Ferdinand
Wayne Bridge
Glen Johnson
Jonathan Woodgate
Phil Jagielka
Stephen Warnock
David Wheater
Sol Campbell
Ashley Cole
Phil Neville
John Terry
Wes Brown
Micah Richards
Matthew Upson
Nicky Shorey
Steven Taylor

Midfielders

David Beckham
Steven Gerrard
Gareth Barry
Stewart Downing
David Bentley
Ashley Young
Tom Huddlestone
Frank Lampard
Joe Cole
Owen Hargreaves
Kieron Dyer
Shaun Wright-Phillips
Michael Carrick

Strikers

Wayne Rooney
Peter Crouch
Jermain Defoe
Theo Walcott
Dean Ashton
Michael Owen
Emile Heskey
Alan Smith
Andrew Johnson
Darren Bent


Ones in bright green are currently world-class.
Ones in dark green, were/would have been regarded as World Class at some point but have fallen off.
Ones in yellow, will be World Class (some are closer to that status than others).
Ones in orange are debatable. It all depends on what your definition of "world-class is". Is it someone who is in the top 5 in their position in the world? Top 3? Top 10? Is it someone who could walk into just about any team in the world? Is it someone who would be in a World XI squad? It's all arbitrary.

'nuum general
8th August '08, 01:02 PM
I think lampard has to be considered world class. How many other central midfielders consistantly score as many goals as he does at such a high level?

The rest i'd agree with bar possibly Terry. I think its a bit premature to say he's fallen off

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:12 PM
I think lampard has to be considered world class. How many other central midfielders consistantly score as many goals as he does at such a high level?

The rest i'd agree with bar possibly Terry. I think its a bit premature to say he's fallen off

Yeah, i'd say it was more of a slip than a fall :evilgrin:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h68/clusion7721/slipping.gif

The Messiah
8th August '08, 01:14 PM
I think lampard has to be considered world class. How many other central midfielders consistantly score as many goals as he does at such a high level?

The rest i'd agree with bar possibly Terry. I think its a bit premature to say he's fallen off

My natural bias and dislike for Chelsea probably clouds my judgement with Terry and Lampard. That said, I have always thought Terry is over-rated and hyped by the media because he is a very good, typical English defender who plays with his heart on his sleeve. In the big and international competitions, he always gets exposed for his lack of pace. There were a few instances of this in the Champions League final.

With Lamps, can't argue with his scoring record, but why do I have a tendency to think that a substantial amount of his goals are deflected goals?

Xtra P
8th August '08, 01:22 PM
Lampard is a right time right place kind of player, I guess that can be conscrewed as world class in some peoples eyes because he has to have a good footballing brain to be in that situation as often as he is, its a matter of opinion!

G-dub
8th August '08, 04:16 PM
We have got world class players, but when u compare them to

c.ronaldo, ronaldo (in his prime) ronaldinho, kaka, robino etc

them players are on a different level tbh.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 04:30 PM
Think of Goerge best, pele, maradonna etc, now think of the players being called world class in this thread!

Eric Cantona
8th August '08, 04:36 PM
It's not a fair comparison really, 'Legend' and 'World Class' are different things.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 04:39 PM
Far point, but world class players uasually become legends!

The Messiah
8th August '08, 05:19 PM
Far point, but world class players usually become legends!

Carlos Alberto. World Class player. Not a legend in the eyes of most football fans today. That's the first example that came to mind. I could name a ton of other South American and European players who were world class but don't have the Pele/Maradona/Beckenbauer effect today.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 05:22 PM
Carlos Alberto. World Class player. Not a legend in the eyes of most football fans today. That's the first example that came to mind. I could name a ton of other South American and European players who were world class but don't have the Pele/Maradona/Beckenbauer effect today.


True stories!

That brings up another question.. what makes a player a legend???

Hij
8th August '08, 05:42 PM
Robbie Fowler and Jamie Carragher are legends.

Were they ever world class? I don't know, maybe Fowler was for a couple seasons.

Nine Bar
8th August '08, 05:49 PM
I dont think players can be regarded as Legends while they are still playing Hij.

Eric Cantona
8th August '08, 05:51 PM
I dont think players can be regarded as Legends while they are still playing Hij.

Yes they can...

Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, David Beckham.....

Nine Bar
8th August '08, 05:54 PM
Well i dont think they van anyway

Eric Cantona
8th August '08, 05:59 PM
Well your wrong then aren't you :)

The Messiah
8th August '08, 06:16 PM
Well i dont think they van anyway

I have to disagree with you and side with Alex and Hij.

Thierry Henry, Arsenal legend. Patrick Vieira, Freddie Ljungberg, Bobby Pires... all still playing. All unquestionably legends. Bergkamp was regarded as a legend whilst he was still playing.

Some fans would say Toure and Fabregas are legends already.

'nuum general
8th August '08, 06:23 PM
Dean Windass - legend

I'm defining world class as someone who is currently among the best in the world for their position

quality
8th August '08, 07:08 PM
Maybe Rio Ferdinand. That's it.

The term world class is used far too much. Ferdinand and Cole are probably the only English players who'd have a shout at getting in a world eleven (and that's still debatable). In Cole's case it'd be because most left-backs about are gash.

Ronaldo is world-class. Messi is world-class. Kaka is world-class. There are no English players on that level really. Gerrard is powerful, and a great athlete, but he has the tactical brain of a 5 year old high on sugar. Same goes for Rooney.

Grimes
8th August '08, 07:10 PM
wasteman.

Hij
8th August '08, 07:20 PM
Maybe Rio Ferdinand. That's it.

The term world class is used far too much. Ferdinand and Cole are probably the only English players who'd have a shout at getting in a world eleven (and that's still debatable). In Cole's case it'd be because most left-backs about are gash.

Ronaldo is world-class. Messi is world-class. Kaka is world-class. There are no English players on that level really. Gerrard is powerful, and a great athlete, but he has the tactical brain of a 5 year old high on sugar. Same goes for Rooney.

LMFAO.

If you can't admit Gerrard is World Class you need to get off the drugs!

6
8th August '08, 07:23 PM
Robbie Fowler and Jamie Carragher are legends.

Were they ever world class? I don't know, maybe Fowler was for a couple seasons.

Carragher was easily world class in 2005.

quality
8th August '08, 07:26 PM
I'm just sick of all the paper talk about how good English players are. If they're so good, then where were we this summer? An English team won the CL, thanks largely to Ronaldo. Gerrard is great for Liverpool when everything is against them and he's obviously a very, very good player. But why does he try the hardest pass every single time? Why do neither Benitez or Capello want to play him in centre-midfield?

Scholes probably had a shout at being world-class at one point.

Nine Bar
8th August '08, 07:34 PM
Scholes probably had a shout?............

Benitez played him out wide because he can play better then Kewell or Pennant and still cause problems, they have loads of good Centre mids, not so many wide players though.

We werent in the Euro's because of Mcclaren.

Ronaldo didnt even perform that well in the champions league so wrong again.

You dont have a clue about football mate.

Xtra P
8th August '08, 07:39 PM
lol

quality
8th August '08, 07:45 PM
Scholes probably had a shout?............

Benitez played him out wide because he can play better then Kewell or Pennant and still cause problems, they have loads of good Centre mids, not so many wide players though.

We werent in the Euro's because of Mcclaren.

Ronaldo didnt even perform that well in the champions league so wrong again.

You dont have a clue about football mate.

lol Roma. lol the Final. lol Ronaldo's 7 goals in the Champions League

Yeah, the manager can be blamed for our 'world class' players drawing at home to Macedonia with pretty much a full squad. McClaren's biggest problem was he let the press/public pick the team, he was the worst manager since Taylor but the players didn't help him at all. Recalling Heskey is an example of him ignoring the press with some success.

G-dub
8th August '08, 08:27 PM
titus bramble

Alfie
8th August '08, 08:50 PM
Does a player become world class on just club performances or do they need to perform for their country too?

For example Terry for Chelsea is very good, but for England?

Grimes
8th August '08, 08:57 PM
its surposed to be both really

mcclaren is the worse manager in english history

Xtra P
8th August '08, 08:59 PM
Does a player become world class on just club performances or do they need to perform for their country too?

For example Terry for Chelsea is very good, but for England?

They have to perform for both club & country IMO

Grimes
8th August '08, 09:01 PM
We have to consider the manager of the country i.e Domenech or Mcclaren.

Jay
8th August '08, 10:32 PM
Only Gerrard imo would make his way into any team in the world.


Micah Richards will be this if he continues to progress.

The Messiah
8th August '08, 11:07 PM
Maybe Rio Ferdinand. That's it.

The term world class is used far too much. Ferdinand and Cole are probably the only English players who'd have a shout at getting in a world eleven (and that's still debatable). In Cole's case it'd be because most left-backs about are gash.

Are you dumb?

Clichy, Evra, Lahm, even Abidal (arguably) are better left-backs than Ashley Cole at this moment in time.

Ashley Cole. World-Class my eye. 4 years ago yeah... but not now.

quality
8th August '08, 11:16 PM
Abidal is awful, has to be one of the most over-rated players on the planet. I'll give you Clichy and Evra, that's why I said its arguable. They're pretty much what Cole was before-Chelsea. He just seems to have lost the attacking part of his game, his defending is still decent.

Grimes
9th August '08, 11:51 AM
There is too many contradictions i thought people said class was permanant

quality
9th August '08, 01:18 PM
Not at all.

Or Shevchenko would still be world class.

To me a true legend is someone who consistantly performed to a world-class level (Zidane, Pele, Maradona) while to me world-class means one of a handful of players. I never said Cole was world class, merely that he'd have a shout of being the best left-back in the world.

Quality Control
9th August '08, 03:32 PM
Rooney
Ferdinand
Gerrard

JACK
9th August '08, 07:18 PM
Abidal is awful, has to be one of the most over-rated players on the planet.

his last season at lyon >>>>

hes never overrated.