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MyLord
22nd December '11, 11:30 AM
Now this I can understand

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/4738/article20773520f3f9d870.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/article20773520f3f9d870.jpg/)


But WTF is this about

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/3589/article00f3fc3870000057.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/article00f3fc3870000057.jpg/)

:stunned:t-shirts? seriously? Am I the only one who thinks that's going to far? Shouldn't we just hold our tounges and wait till everything comes out?

Josh
22nd December '11, 12:11 PM
its just crazy lol i honestly cant believe it, he's not flippin dead

liverpool are coming out of this looking terrible - from their childish emotional statement to Kenny Dalglish doing an interview in a Suarez shirt looking like he's just got out of bed after a night on the lash, it isn't a good look no matter how the fans try to portray it.

Shakeem
22nd December '11, 12:11 PM
you support this club bro. Hij was most prob jumping up and down when he saw them tshirts.

chris89
22nd December '11, 12:20 PM
its just crazy lol i honestly cant believe it, he's not flippin dead

liverpool are coming out of this looking terrible - from their childish emotional statement to Kenny Dalglish doing an interview in a Suarez shirt looking like he's just got out of bed after a night on the lash, it isn't a good look no matter how the fans try to portray it.
.

Sean
22nd December '11, 12:23 PM
its just crazy lol i honestly cant believe it, he's not flippin dead

liverpool are coming out of this looking terrible - from their childish emotional statement to Kenny Dalglish doing an interview in a Suarez shirt looking like he's just got out of bed after a night on the lash, it isn't a good look no matter how the fans try to portray it.

This.. I can also see some stupid people come up with the theory that liverpool are condoning racism as well as there backing Suarez for getting banned for racism seen a few comments on websites along those lines, But the T-Shirts are rediculous theres no need

MyLord
22nd December '11, 12:37 PM
The statement had a few dodgy parts to it but for the most part it was accurate. What needs to be made clear is that WE are disappointed with the punishment of Suarez and not that he has been found guilty. If or when we do challenge this and we win then I can see this being a huge problem for a lot of black players.


you support this club bro. Hij was most prob jumping up and down when he saw them tshirts.

Hell fucking yeah broski. I got a poster of J.Barnes on me wall. I kiss it every morning

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 12:41 PM
inb4HijnegsdonsITT

This whole never walk alone bullshit is cringy as fuck tbh

Come at me scouser bros

MyLord
22nd December '11, 12:43 PM
inb4HijnegsdonsITT

This whole never walk alone bullshit is cringy as fuck tbh

Come at me scouser bros

:angry:FUCK OFF STEPPER:angry:

I think a lot of people have got the wrong end of the stick tbh.

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 12:48 PM
I know Suarez isnt racist his great grandad once had sex with a black woman, so he cant be racist.

I dunno why Liverpool are making such a big deal over it, just appeal and wait for the decision. Are they going to wear these t-shirts every game? inb4theystartsellingthem

Jay
22nd December '11, 12:57 PM
This tshirt thing is a joke. Your backing your player, that's right, but the tshirts are just a step too far. I don't agree with the 8 games suspension but be real, the tshirts are only increasing the animosity towards the whole event from other fans. Wouldn't surprise me if these antics didn't see Pool getting in trouble themselves.

Ari Gold
22nd December '11, 12:59 PM
lol

MyLord
22nd December '11, 01:00 PM
I know Suarez isnt racist his great grandad once had sex with a black woman, so he cant be racist.

I dunno why Liverpool are making such a big deal over it, just appeal and wait for the decision. Are they going to wear these t-shirts every game? inb4theystartsellingthem

:laugh:its tru tho, I agree. I think KK has reacted out of anger towards Suarez's punishment instead of thinking this through. This could easily back fire on us.

Would be a mudness if at some point a bid came in from Barcelona or some other top club for Suarez and he just left:laugh:

chris89
22nd December '11, 01:11 PM
Lol if after all this they don't appeal

MyLord
22nd December '11, 01:16 PM
Lol if after all this they don't appeal

smh

BIGDON
22nd December '11, 01:17 PM
inb4Terryshirtstonight

MyLord
22nd December '11, 01:19 PM
inb4Terryshirtstonight

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

M.O.G.
22nd December '11, 01:36 PM
Lool itt baffled football fans stay baffled, the whole t-shirt thing is a 2 fingers up to the FA affair.
Dont really see what Liverpool are doing wrong tbh, maybe im biased but supporting your player is what you're supposed to do and they clearly believe the decision is wrong so they're showing solidarity.


Lol if after all this they don't appeal

Already been clarified Liverpool will be appealing

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 01:39 PM
inb4ban is increased for shitty appeal lululul

M.O.G.
22nd December '11, 01:40 PM
inb4ban is increased for shitty appeal lululul

Could happen, would be a par but that just shows how hard done by they genuinely feel he has

chris89
22nd December '11, 01:47 PM
inb4Terryshirtstonight

.

He's only been charged though not banned, lol @ shirts after proof

NSF
22nd December '11, 01:55 PM
It did seem a bit odd when I saw it last night but it's just to show solidarity in the squad between team mates and that they are all behind Suarez nh.

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:10 PM
I didn't see the t shirts I didn't watch the match I posted in another thread that the t shirts would happen before the match started

I think we are clear
He was banned for using a racial term although no one is sure of his intentions - Kenny dalglish believes it wasn't racist

Gus poyet says he would rather die before what Luis said was racist

Evra said he's not racist

The fa admitted he isn't racist

He is not though a racist like the media and some of you portray him and Liverpool I think rightfully are defending him for that .

Selective moral outrage is a lot in this country. He will get dogs abuse wherever he goes now - although it looks more and more like a misunderstanding he has been strung up by the balls for

Facts remain though if it is illegal to use the word he deserves the ban. But if his team mates who see him every day believe in him why have a problem ?

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:14 PM
The fact you are all annoyed at this shows you that you believe Suarez to be a racist and to not have used a racial word unwittingly of which there was no question in the enquiry. there is a major difference between the two hence the slur and character assassination on him is complete .

Sosa
22nd December '11, 02:15 PM
lol am i the only one who has clocked that suarez was just being dealt with by the FA, while JT has been interviewed by the police ... inb4jailtime

EA
22nd December '11, 02:16 PM
:lol: this is tacky and retarded.


lol am i the only one who has clocked that suarez was just being dealt with by the FA, while JT has been interviewed by the police ... inb4jailtime

The worst thing that could happen to JT is a 2K fine IIRC.

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:19 PM
lol am i the only one who has clocked that suarez was just being dealt with by the FA, while JT has been interviewed by the police ... inb4jailtime

He won't get jailed and the max fine is £2,500 which shows the extent of the justice from the FA

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:20 PM
Can say what you want about how it looks but the message is clear: the players and the club are behind Luis Suarez

Infact as you all love it so much I've found me a new avatar

Tony Starks
22nd December '11, 02:20 PM
Lol @ Liverpool acting like he's a political prisoner :laugh:

He should hold his ban and Liverpool need to stfu. Also its fast becoming obvious that Liverpool are using this saga as leverage for when they finish 6th and other clubs come calling for him. Suarez would have no choice but to stick with them as they so bravely 'stood' by him

If this was Jay Spearing this saga wouldn't drag on they'd let him hold his ban and want this saga forgotten asap

BIGLEE
22nd December '11, 02:20 PM
How come they didn't wear black t shirts?

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:28 PM
Lol @ Liverpool acting like he's a political prisoner :laugh:

He should hold his ban and Liverpool need to stfu. Also its fast becoming obvious that Liverpool are using this saga as leverage for when they finish 6th and other clubs come calling for him. Suarez would have no choice but to stick with them as they so bravely 'stood' by him

If this was Jay Spearing this saga wouldn't drag on they'd let him hold his ban and want this saga forgotten asap

It's as simple as him being tarnished as a racist when for now it appears it's probably not the case . There is a difference between using the term and being branded a racist forever in England and given dogs abuse at every ground you go to.

It's clear that suarez even admitted what he said and tried to explain the context to the panel and looking at the rules they have done him squarely on the use of the word rather than any ill intent.

The fact this thread has had so many replies means it's done it's job.

I think that act last night was more important than the 3 points if a mans reputation is on the line and they stand behind him

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:29 PM
Lol at your conspiracy theory Tony. Thought more of you

Tony Starks
22nd December '11, 02:35 PM
Lol at your conspiracy theory Tony. Thought more of you
Its not even a conspiracy its blindingly obvious. I don't think Suarez is a racist but Liverpool wouldn't go to this extent for Spearing.

Suarez is your main asset and you're all aware nothing will come of this 'campaigning' apart from Suarez growing more 'love and respect' for the club. Which is pretty convenient considering you're gonna deny a world class player Champions League football for the second year in a row.

Sosa
22nd December '11, 02:36 PM
Which is pretty convenient considering you're gonna deny a world class player Champions League football for the second year in a row.

:woah:

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:38 PM
Your comparing someones reputation who has been tarnished and ripped to shreds by the media to a challenge than is made week in week out?

Do one pal. Using this to wind man up. Fuck off

Shakeem
22nd December '11, 02:45 PM
Which is pretty convenient considering you're gonna deny a world class player Champions League football for the second year in a row.

actually laughed in irl

NSF
22nd December '11, 02:45 PM
Its not even a conspiracy its blindingly obvious. I don't think Suarez is a racist but Liverpool wouldn't go to this extent for Spearing.

Suarez is your main asset and you're all aware nothing will come of this 'campaigning' apart from Suarez growing more 'love and respect' for the club. Which is pretty convenient considering you're gonna deny a world class player Champions League football for the second year in a row.
Spearing would know he was saying something racist though, the argument is still over cultural differences and now because the FA don't understand the Uruguayan culture Suarez is being classed as racist and putting a stain on his reputation. That's why Liverpool are being supportive of him IMO.

BIGDON
22nd December '11, 02:46 PM
the shirts were a bad image fair enough support your team mate in the dressing room and on the legal side of things but it shouldn't of been brought onto the pitch and Kenny wearing 1 of them for a pre match interview :dead: the players probably had them under there shirts to lift up if they scored aswell

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:46 PM
Spearing would know he was saying something racist though, the argument is still over cultural differences and now because the FA don't understand the Uruguayan culture Suarez is being classed as racist and putting a stain on his reputation. That's why Liverpool are being supportive of him IMO.

In one mate

Villain_94
22nd December '11, 02:49 PM
inb4ban is increased for shitty appeal lululul

:laugh::laugh:

Scrappy123
22nd December '11, 02:52 PM
Suarez isn't racist though. He used a racist term in this country and for that he should hold a ban. A bigger one if anything.

The T Shirts are so cringe. Kenny is happy though, no one even mentioned the fact they drew with Wigan lol.

Hij
22nd December '11, 02:58 PM
Suarez isn't racist though. He used a racist term in this country and for that he should hold a ban. A bigger one if anything.

Agree with everything IMO except the last bit. Liverpool's reaction is that he has been branded a racist, when it's a bit of a grey area. Should they have banished Suarez from the stadium despite his protestations?


The T Shirts are so cringe.

To be fair, the word cringe is gay


Kenny is happy though, no one even mentioned the fact they drew with Wigan lol.

I did.

El Asesino
22nd December '11, 02:59 PM
Lool itt baffled football fans stay baffled, the whole t-shirt thing is a 2 fingers up to the FA affair.
Dont really see what Liverpool are doing wrong tbh, maybe im biased but supporting your player is what you're supposed to do and they clearly believe the decision is wrong so they're showing solidarity.



Already been clarified Liverpool will be appealing

Exactly, good idea imo.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:02 PM
More interesting about how the FA works is that we cannot appeal the ban, only the number of games. There's a lot more to come out about how shit the testimony Suarez was allowed was.

Mylord, I believe the club already know what's in the files. Cool FA releasing them to immediately back themselves up bros

Still not out. It takes a 5 second copy and paste job.

EA
22nd December '11, 03:04 PM
A lot of blind loyalty ITT.

Josh
22nd December '11, 03:06 PM
The fact you are all annoyed at this shows you that you believe Suarez to be a racist and to not have used a racial word unwittingly of which there was no question in the enquiry. there is a major difference between the two hence the slur and character assassination on him is complete .

He isn't a racist but he committed a racist act (according to an independent board). Nobody should really be annoyed at Suarez, it should be your club that people are annoyed at. I've spoken to a good few Liverpool fans who are quite frankly embarrassed at what their club is doing and just wish they could keep it low key (well, as low as possible).

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:07 PM
"It was a situation the likes of which one experiences every day in the Argentine capital of Buenos Aires. Lining up behind an attractive, olive-skinned girl in her mid-20s in a store, in the middle of a December heatwave which pushed the mercury towards 37°C and waiting patiently as the stranger bought a box of Marlboro cigarettes. The clerk passed back her change with a smile, and the salutation "Gracias, negra".


A completely innocuous, mundane interaction, but one that stuck in the mind due to the events that followed a matter of minutes later. On the same day, and at almost exactly the same time as that exchange, Uruguayan forward Luis Suarez was receiving an eight match ban for saying the same word to Patrice Evra on the other side of the world in England.


It is not the purpose of this article to assign blame, to condone or crucify Suarez or to call Evra's sterling reputation as a footballer into disrepute. The pair are both professionals at the very top of their chosen career, so to descend into simple conclusions - as the temptation has been for many in the sport and in the media - is lazy and poor journalism. But to every story there is two sides, and in South America and especially Luis' home nation the reaction has been of utter disbelief.


"Senseless", was Sebastian Abreu's word to describe the lengthy suspension, while Uruguay captain Diego Lugano went even further in calling it a "grave error", and accusing Evra of breaking football's unwritten code of what happens on the pitch, stays on the pitch. The Uruguayan government even commented in favour of their striker, but perhaps one of the most considered arguments was provided by Lazio's Alvaro Gonzalez.


"In Uruguay we use terms that can be misinterpreted and all of us who know Luis know that he wouldn't have made the comment as a defamatory remark," he said in quotes published by Ovacion.


"You can't call a Uruguayan racist because of that ... perhaps we are paying the price for going to live in different cultures."


The word in question, negro, understandably appears ugly and bigoted when laid down on paper in English. As demonstrated by the anecdote at the start of this article, however, in Uruguay as in Argentina and much of Latin America it is considered a neutral, even familiar term. Friends, sons, daughters, parents are addressed with the phrase, or its diminutive negrito/a, whether they are from African, mixed-race or even European descent with blue hair and blonde eyes.


It is not the language of politicians or diplomats, admittedly, indeed little one hears inside the lines of a football pitch would be suitable in the debating chamber of the UN. But it is the product of a society and continent in which the process of nation and population-building has made traditional labels almost superfluous.


Some four per cent of the country's three million population claim African descent, a proportion double that of the United Kingdom and not including those of mixed heritage, believed to number around 10%. This group have been settled and integrated in Uruguayan society up to 400 years, and have left an indelible imprint on the nation's culture, music and language. Suarez himself has an Afro-Uruguayan grandfather, and he is carrying on a grand tradition of multiculturalism in the Celeste football team.


Uruguay withstood strong protest to field black players in the 1916 Copa America, a full 63 years before Viv Anderson took the pitch to become England's first black international. The history of the country's football success is littered with great players of African or mixed descent; and many, such as 1950 captain Obdulio Varela, are still remembered fondly as 'El Negro'.


In this context, then, a misunderstanding of intent and a linguistic confusion appears to be the culprit, one for which Luis Suarez has paid for heavily. Is he really expected to know that the Spanish word he has grown up with as neutral and even affectionate his whole life was co-opted by British and American slavers in the 18th century as a synonym for African people, and used frequently until becoming taboo in the 1960s civil rights struggle? It is the content of a university thesis, not an assumption for a 24-year-old footballer adapting to a new country and culture.


That is not to paint Uruguay or Argentina as colour-blind paradises, far from it. Racism and racist comments are no rarer than anywhere else in the world, although more often directed towards nationalities rather than ethnicities. The fact that in Buenos Aires the term Boliviano or Paraguayo when referring to immigrants from that country can be much more pejorative than the word negro is a cultural anomaly hard to interpret for someone unfamiliar with the culture, and migrants from South America are no strangers to similar discrimination elsewhere.


It has been widely reported, for example, that Evra called Suarez a "South American" or "Sudaca" before receiving his perceived insult, and the latter especially is horribly demeaning for those from the continent who have chosen to pursue their lives in Europe. The South American, however, left things on the field, most likely taking the angry exchange as part and parcel of making his living in a testosterone-fuelled atmosphere where tempers often fray.


It is equally unfair to say that Evra, perhaps not versed in the history and etymology of the word in its Spanish, Latin-American context, was wrong to take offence at Suarez's language. There is no place for racial insults, however intended, in modern football with the strides it has taken in extracting this cancer in the last 25 years.


But, as Tim Vickery mentioned in an excellent article on the same subject before the ruling, the FA had a perfect chance to demonstrate their ability to adapt to the demands of modern football. Taking Suarez in front of the board, explaining that such language can be construed in negative ways in England and handing out a light warning would have sent the player a clear message while not castigating him for his linguistic faux pas.


In throwing the book at the Uruguayan, however, the ruling body has demonstrated an ignorance and clumsiness when faced with cultural sensitivities which has made it the object of outrage in one of the world's most inclusive football nations.


Suarez's ban may be another step on the road to the English Premier League's enlightenment when it comes to racial controversies, but it also proves that when faced with a question of cultural understanding and compromise in a globalised football world, their attitude remains indisputably in the stone age."


By Daniel Edwards in Buenos Aires


He isn't a racist but he committed a racist act (according to an independent board). Nobody should really be annoyed at Suarez, it should be your club that people are annoyed at. I've spoken to a good few Liverpool fans who are quite frankly embarrassed at what their club is doing and just wish they could keep it low key (well, as low as possible).

Weirdly I haven't spoken to one, bar MyLord.

Why should anyone be annoyed at the club when the facts still aren't out? Within minutes of the decision the PFA released a statement directed at FIFA and Sepp Blatter. Funny that the statement was prepared so quickly. With the facts still not out, and the statement Liverpool released, there is clearly a lot more too this.

Mountain and a molehill this is. The amount of time expended on one cunting word with different interprations when we could do something about Nick Griffin or the cunts who write for the Daily Mail. The whole country stays losing.

Selective moral outrage.

Sean
22nd December '11, 03:09 PM
Think its all been blown well out of proportion the whole situation. Thats rediculous you cant appeal the ban only the number of games, i would imagine you wont get anywhere with it tbh. because the FA are going to want to stand there ground with matters like this, as there meant to be seen doing active work about kicking racism out of football and once again the ban has been inforced heavily beacuse of media coverage it has been dealt both this and JT's.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:17 PM
Think its all been blown well out of proportion the whole situation. Thats rediculous you cant appeal the ban only the number of games, i would imagine you wont get anywhere with it tbh. because the FA are going to want to stand there ground with matters like this, as there meant to be seen doing active work about kicking racism out of football and once again the ban has been inforced heavily beacuse of media coverage it has been dealt both this and JT's.
I believe this is highly motivated by the need to be seen to be acting on racism, regardless of the mitigating factors of the actual case.

Pirate
22nd December '11, 03:20 PM
considering celtic got a 16 grand fine for putting up a FUCK UEFA banner, expect another shitstorm for last nights shenanigans tbh

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:21 PM
considering celtic got a 16 grand fine for putting up a FUCK UEFA banner, expect another shitstorm for last nights shenanigans tbh

woi oii we're going to war

quality
22nd December '11, 03:23 PM
Could have all worn anti-racism shirts and said afterwards that they supporting Suarez if he chose to appeal.

Instead they've tried to turn it into some Team Bridge type thing which, for a club that continually prides itself on its class, is a joke. Stay classy Liverpool.

Sean
22nd December '11, 03:23 PM
I believe this is highly motivated by the need to be seen to be acting on racism, regardless of the mitigating factors of the actual case.

Exactly that and its not often that anything like this comes up but they feel they have to be shown as being active and handing out punishments just been blown out of proportion, The appeal will get nowhere if anything for appealing it they will add another 2 match ban most probably its rediculous.

GrimmyGrimGrim
22nd December '11, 03:28 PM
Hij's christmas list:

-Suarez t shirt
-King Kennys Liverpool vs Fulham DVD

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:30 PM
I think he's been done for using the word, regardless of its context and regardless that most of Uruguay are now scratching their heads as to why he has been banned. It's been done under a cloud of secrecy, taken far too long (probably to make sure they can absolutely nail him) they still haven't released any of the evidence behind it or explained exactly how it went down.

I've supported Liverpool for a long time and I saw the statement that the directors put up against the owners will on the main website but I've never seen a statement worded so strongly or implying so much as that one did last night, hence I think there is more to come out and the club appears to be willing to put itself on the line to tease more of the facts of the case out because all we know so far is that he is guilty - there is nothing released, which is actually shameful considering they've had 3 months.


@Hij (http://www.grimeforum.com/forum/member.php?u=1) 's christmas list:

-Suarez t shirt
-King Kennys Liverpool vs Fulham DVD

Get me the 5-1 one yeah?


Could have all worn anti-racism shirts and said afterwards that they supporting Suarez if he chose to appeal.

Instead they've tried to turn it into some Team Bridge type thing which, for a club that continually prides itself on its class, is a joke. Stay classy Liverpool.

They should have worn Kill Suarez T Shirts, then half of England could all demand he receive the death penalty. I'm not surprised they wore them off the back of the Daily Mirror and Daily Star back pages.

What makes me laugh is that this has officially turned into one of them things where people who don't even like football, pontificate on 24 hour news channels about racism, when the clear facts of the case are that he said nothing along the likes of what it is assumed he said.

Mazer Rackham
22nd December '11, 03:32 PM
its just crazy lol i honestly cant believe it, he's not flippin dead

liverpool are coming out of this looking terrible - from their childish emotional statement to Kenny Dalglish doing an interview in a Suarez shirt looking like he's just got out of bed after a night on the lash, it isn't a good look no matter how the fans try to portray it.

.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:33 PM
Thread is going multi platinum over everything else.

It worked.

quality
22nd December '11, 03:33 PM
I'm not surprised either. That's the sad thing.

What the fuck was Adam's penalty about? Put all my rep on them beating fucking Wigan.

Every time I see al Ahabsi he looks sick doe.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:34 PM
I'm not surprised either. That's the sad thing.
.

Must be lofty up there on your high horse.

Mazer Rackham
22nd December '11, 03:34 PM
Its not even a conspiracy its blindingly obvious. I don't think Suarez is a racist but Liverpool wouldn't go to this extent for Spearing.

Suarez is your main asset and you're all aware nothing will come of this 'campaigning' apart from Suarez growing more 'love and respect' for the club. Which is pretty convenient considering you're gonna deny a world class player Champions League football for the second year in a row.
:woah:

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:37 PM
The written judgment explaining the findings of the Independent Commission, which issued the severe punishment against the South American for racially abusing Manchester United defender Patrice Evra, is not likely to be published until mid-January.

Come on this is a fucking stitch up. Wait until everyone's already confined him to guilty, so that the released evidence doesn't change people's minds?

Mazer Rackham
22nd December '11, 03:38 PM
If a white fulham player was accussed of racism , i wouldnt boo the guy , but i wouldnt cheer him specially or wear some t shirt until the situation was resolved and he was found to be innocent. this is cos im black, not white, and racism actually affects me beyond my favourite player getting banned for a few weeks.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:39 PM
There was at least some relief for Suárez last night when Merseyside police confirmed that the FA’s judgment will not lead to a criminal investigation similar to that affecting Chelsea captain John Terry.

Why though? If he's definitely guilty, it should go through the courts as well.


racism actually affects me beyond my favourite player getting banned for a few weeks.
I'm not on about the ban you pretentious retarded cunt

The players and the manager will know loads more than any of us, it's even more pertinent that they were wearing them. Why would they all risk their own reputations if they didn't have conviction in the fact that Suarez was delivered a very harsh deal.

I said ages ago that their statement should have been worded to reflect the intricacies.

Mazer Rackham
22nd December '11, 03:41 PM
I'm not on about the ban you pretentious retarded cunt

cool avi

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:42 PM
cool avi

Cool ban bro.

I'll swing it out with anyone but if your gonna try and properly write a post aimed at winding me up like that I'm not in the mood, not today.

quality
22nd December '11, 03:43 PM
Must be lofty up there on your high horse.

Not about high horses, Daglish has been a moaning prick since he came back. Now the club has turned a sensitive and serious issue into some sort of PR stunt.

Free the Merseyside One.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:44 PM
the written judgment explaining the findings of the independent commission, which issued the severe punishment against the south american for racially abusing manchester united defender patrice evra, is not likely to be published until mid-january.only when liverpool (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/) have received the transcript from the chairman of the commission, paul goulding qc, can they consider whether to take further action. That is when the 14-day deadline to challenge the conclusions will be triggered.

the public debate on suárez is so far based only on the verdict, not the evidence, which is why liverpool believe goulding needs to publish quickly. The fa did promise on wednesday to print all details on its website when it eventually receives them from goulding.

the possible one-month delay means the saga is certain to drag on towards the end of the season. It is inconceivable an appeal will not follow given the strength of feeling on merseyside. However, liverpool will then run the risk of seeing the ban extended even longer.

the fa reserves the right to increase the penalty on the uruguay striker should he request a new panel to convene to reassess the evidence.

There is also a possibility that liverpool will face an additional charge, with united considering a complaint about the wording of their rivals’ strongly-worded response, which criticised evra, to the verdict.
There was at least some relief for suárez last night when merseyside police confirmed that the fa’s judgment will not lead to a criminal investigation similar to that affecting chelsea captain john terry.
The police will not act unless a complaint is made, and evra has made no representations about the oct 15 incident.
Liverpool’s belligerent response to the fa’s guilty verdict, which also landed suárez with a £40,000 fine, has not softened in the last 24 hours.
The manager, kenny dalglish, the club’s american owners and entire playing squad are as one in their rejection of the independent panel’s findings.
While most of english football’s representative bodies, including the professional footballers’ association, welcomed the fa's tough stance on racism, liverpool’s players took the unprecedented step of releasing a statement of their own.
They also wore t-shirts sporting suárez’s image and no 7 ahead of their premier league fixture with wiganon wednesday night. The players’ statement read: “luis suárez is our team-mate and our friend and as a group of players we are shocked and angered that he has been found guilty by the fa.
“we totally support luis and we want the world to know that. We know he is not racist.
“we are a squad of many different nationalities and backgrounds. All of us support the club’s commitment to fighting racism. All of us accept there is no place in the game for any form of discrimination.
“as a group of players we totally support the kick it out campaign.
“we have lived, trained and played with luis for almost 12 months and we don’t recognise the way he has been portrayed. “we will continue to support luis through this difficult period, and as a popular and respected friend of all his team-mates, he will not walk alone.”
liverpool know there is a danger of the club becoming increasingly isolated in english football, especially given the response of the pfa, but are adamant that they will stand by their player.
Gordon taylor, the pfa’s chief executive, who tried to bring the two clubs together in the immediate aftermath of the racism allegation, said the fa was beyond reproach. Taylor said: “this was an independent commission experienced in law and football and they must have had compelling evidence, and it sends out a very strong message to the rest of the world.
“i understand the point about cultural differences but if you come to this country all players have to abide by not just the laws of the game but the laws of the land as well. Referring to someone’s skin colour has got to be offensive — it’s self-evident.
“this is a timely reminder for the fa, the pfa and the clubs to continue education programmes, particularly for players coming from abroad: It is never right to make reference to a person’s skin, colour or nationality.”
the fa knew there was little prospect of the issue reaching a conclusion with the announcement of its verdict. Although the fa has received plenty of support for its response, liverpool continue to believe a witch-hunt has gained momentum without the full facts being made public.
Most of the criticism the fa has received beyond merseyside has come from those querying the wisdom of a £40,000 fine for a player who earns nearly double that a week. The fa points out that money goes into grass-roots projects..

Sean
22nd December '11, 03:44 PM
lool Peak for paps considering this time last year he was part of one of the best threads on the forum lol

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:46 PM
Not about high horses, Daglish has been a moaning prick since he came back. Now the club has turned a sensitive and serious issue into some sort of PR stunt.

Free the Merseyside One.

Don't get me started on Harry Redknapp mate.

Well seeing as 99% of the country think he's a cunt, and the players (including the black lads for what its worth) believe him to be innocent what else should they have done? They all risked their reputations for him last night about PR stunt.

Look at it the other way - if there isn't clear doubt from the findings (of which have been delayed release until January) why else would the club and the players make such a big deal out of it?

Unlike the Terry case we're 4 months down the line and unlike the Terry case no one is 100% certain what was said - only the people who were present at the hearing, like for instance Kenny Dalglish.



lool Peak for paps considering this time last year he was part of one of the best threads on the forum lol
I'll bring him back, and yeah I am mad today - partly because it's rare that you have to argue with every single member of the forum every 5 minutes - but his post was just intended to wind me up and I've had enough of that.

Sean
22nd December '11, 03:48 PM
Don't get me started on Harry Redknapp mate.

Well seeing as 99% of the country think he's a cunt, and the players (including the black lads for what its worth) believe him to be innocent what else should they have done? They all risked their reputations for him last night about PR stunt.


I'll bring him back, and yeah I am mad today - partly because it's rare that you have to argue with every single member of the forum every 5 minutes - but his post was just intended to wind me up and I've had enough of that.

Fair enough just dont take it to heart so much you know what people are like on here just after a reaction lol Want to see what they hand JT will be interesting to see what they hand him in comparisson.

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:50 PM
I need to wrap this up. I'll take the word of my manager, who was instrumental in the inclusion of black players in England in the 80's, who actually sat on the panel, attended and listened to what was said - over pretty much anyone else - until the fucking clear evidence is released and Kenny is proven to be chatting shit. I bet anyone £100 he's been done on a technicality, but rather than accept the cultural differences and make that clear in their statement, they've thrown the book at him regardless and then tossed him out to the red tops and the rest of the country, going at him like a pack of wolves. But it's all good for you to take the nice high moral stance regardless of the lack of any proper evidence - your not the one splashed across the back pages with and had "racist, racist, racist" and other such bile thrown at you from the stands and had to cope with your reputation dragged through the mud over the last 4 months.

Spitzos
22nd December '11, 03:53 PM
Cool ban bro.

I'll swing it out with anyone but if your gonna try and properly write a post aimed at winding me up like that I'm not in the mood, not today.

paps said

"lol at banning me, not everying revolves around you"

Jay
22nd December '11, 03:53 PM
Tbh just from the views n the thread you would have to agree that the tshirts have had nothing but a negative effect?

I think most of us agree here that Suarez isn't racist and that no ill intent was meant by his comments. This tshirt thing is just a cringeworthy affair, im sure its only increased anomosity towards suarez and liverpool over the whole saga.

Josh
22nd December '11, 03:55 PM
Tbh just from the views n the thread you would have to agree that the tshirts have had nothing but a negative effect?

I think most of us agree here that Suarez isn't racist and that no ill intent was meant by his comments. This tshirt thing is just a cringeworthy affair, im sure its only increased anomosity towards suarez and liverpool over the whole saga.

*applause*

Hij
22nd December '11, 03:57 PM
Tbh just from the views n the thread you would have to agree that the tshirts have had nothing but a negative effect?
I agree that perhaps there was a little too much emotion, and using this thread as a straw poll, they didn't have the intended effect.


I think most of us agree here that Suarez isn't racist and that no ill intent was meant by his comments. .

The FA agree with this as well, but nothing in their statement referenced that - which would have meant they dealt with it appropriately and then Newspapers and fans could be done for libel for continually chanting or referencing Suarez as racist. Quality talks of this as a sensitive issue, but they've blown Suarez completely out of the water- I imagine there would be a different reaction in Uruguay over the sensitivities of the case than on this forum. I think a 3 game ban, with a statement that clearly indicates that he's not a racist, but just used the wrong language and everyone in the game needs to be better educated would have been a more relevant punishment, one that dealt with the mitigating factors and the fact that the conversation took place in Spanish - one the club would probably accept - but they've basically thrown him to the wolves.

Ultimately, for my sins, for my club and my manager to be so vehemently behind our player, I will believe them until I see conclusive proof that goes otherwise - all I can see is my club willing to put its neck on the line for Suarez and these allegations - and Kenny Dalglish and our lawyers would have been present at the inquiry - the only other people with such information as well will be Manchester United, the lads who sentenced him and Evra- so if they feel the weight of justice has gone too far down the other side - who am I to disagree with them if no-one can prove them wrong yet, other than a guilty verdict that the club think is unfair?

If the club turn out to be completely wrong, I will accept all the allegations of them being completely stupid and I will feel let down by them for dragging this out. But until that point, I have no other option than to believe them - I've never seen such a strongly worded statement written on our site - which I think perhaps, speaks volumes about what lurks underneath.

I would say "we will soon see" - but it appears we won't until at least 2012. We'll probably all be dead by the time this gets sorted out anyway.

quality
22nd December '11, 04:01 PM
99% of the country? I don't know if he's a racist, I don't hate him (or feel anyway about him), but he's at least an idiot for making a comment about someones skin colour.

And the t-shirts were a joke. Childish response to a very adult situation. Could have worn an anti-racism t-shirt, said that Liverpool supports all actions to get rid of racism from society/football, and they are confident Suarez is not a racist. Instead they played to the lowest common denominator fan.

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:04 PM
Childish response to a very adult situation. Could have worn an anti-racism t-shirt, said that Liverpool supports all actions to get rid of racism from society/football, and they are confident Suarez is not a racist. Instead they played to the lowest common denominator fan.

Anyway, we've spoken about the T Shirt's several times now Quality. As a man of fairness, pray tell me - what do you make of them delaying the document release until after the appeal date?

NSF
22nd December '11, 04:04 PM
Tbh just from the views n the thread you would have to agree that the tshirts have had nothing but a negative effect?

I think most of us agree here that Suarez isn't racist and that no ill intent was meant by his comments. This tshirt thing is just a cringeworthy affair, im sure its only increased anomosity towards suarez and liverpool over the whole saga.Not really, I'm not a Liverpool fan and I think it's a good way to show the team sticking together. How do you know Suarez wasn't upset yesterday and seeing his team do that for him gave him a lift before the game?

It's easy saying "no-one thinks he was racist" but the papers said a different story yesterday, on the back of the daily mirror they had "RACIST" above a picture of him, then had 3 articles from 3 different journalists saying the FA did the honourable thing banning him for 8 games, basically saying that's what you get for being racist. Not once did any of the articles suggest the FA may have got it wrong because of the culture difference or even mentioned the culture difference. People will have read that and made their minds up from it.

Villain_94
22nd December '11, 04:05 PM
Cool ban bro.

I'll swing it out with anyone but if your gonna try and properly write a post aimed at winding me up like that I'm not in the mood, not today.

:woah:

you overreacted, smh

NSF
22nd December '11, 04:06 PM
99% of the country? I don't know if he's a racist, I don't hate him (or feel anyway about him), but he's at least an idiot for making a comment about someones skin colour.

And the t-shirts were a joke. Childish response to a very adult situation. Could have worn an anti-racism t-shirt, said that Liverpool supports all actions to get rid of racism from society/football, and they are confident Suarez is not a racist. Instead they played to the lowest common denominator fan.Suarez does charity work in Uruguay getting kids from different ethnicities to play football or something along those lines. Why should he come out and support the Kick it out campaign when they've not supported him, instead they've said he deserves it.

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:09 PM
Suarez does charity work in Uruguay getting kids from different ethnicities to play football or something along those lines. Why should he come out and support the Kick it out campaign when they've not supported him, instead they've said he deserves it.

You can't come out with common sense in this thread mate.


then had 3 articles from 3 different journalists saying the FA did the honourable thing banning him for 8 games, basically saying that's what you get for being racist.
I fucking hate our country. The delay of the files being released is just another joke in this sorry mess.

Jay
22nd December '11, 04:12 PM
Not really, I'm not a Liverpool fan and I think it's a good way to show the team sticking together. How do you know Suarez wasn't upset yesterday and seeing his team do that for him gave him a lift before the game?

It's easy saying "no-one thinks he was racist" but the papers said a different story yesterday, on the back of the daily mirror they had "RACIST" above a picture of him, then had 3 articles from 3 different journalists saying the FA did the honourable thing banning him for 8 games, basically saying that's what you get for being racist. Not once did any of the articles suggest the FA may have got it wrong because of the culture difference or even mentioned the culture difference. People will have read that and made their minds up from it.

lol @ dailly mail trying to brand anyone racist

I did say us on here agree hes not racist. I would expect a very different view from people outside of here who I would believe are ignorant enough to believe a big headline and take it as gospel. This is why the tshirt thing has gone down badly. If you think that people believe the headlines then the tshirts is going to do sweet fuck all to change their minds.

As stated earlier, wearing the kick racism out or similar tshirts would have been a much more apt choice and wouldn't have been directly naming Suarez. Too much is being put on Suarez as it is, to highlight him out before the game surely wasn't the greatest move? Certainly took off what wasn't the greatest away day.

Josh
22nd December '11, 04:12 PM
You can't come out with common sense in this thread mate.

There's been loads of it but you just don't accept it lol

quality
22nd December '11, 04:16 PM
Anyway, we've spoken about the T Shirt's several times now Quality. As a man of fairness, pray tell me - what do you make of them delaying the document release until after the appeal date?

Dunno, I would like to read it I guess. Why the delay? I'm on my phone and can't really search around for it.

Its impossible to get inside his mind, so I'll guess the FA have gone on him saying in ENGLAND something which drew attention to someones skin colour. Which obviously isn't allowed, and they've given a ban to send a strong message out to anyone who would do that.

As I said in the other thread, that's fine, if they don't deal with Terry in the same way, I'll join Liverpool fans in condemning the FA.

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:18 PM
Dunno, I would like to read it I guess. Why the delay? I'm on my phone and can't really search around for it.

Its impossible to get inside his mind, so I'll guess the FA have gone on him saying in ENGLAND something which drew attention to someones skin colour. Which obviously isn't allowed, and they've given a ban to send a strong message out to anyone who would do that.

As I said in the other thread, that's fine, if they don't deal with Terry in the same way, I'll join Liverpool fans in condemning the FA.

No reason for the delay. A bit baffed by it all mate.

So if Evra admitted to the panel using the offensive word "Sudaca" - why has he not been charged?

Jay
22nd December '11, 04:21 PM
No reason for the delay. A bit baffed by it all mate.

So if Evra admitted to the panel using the offensive word "Sudaca" - why has he not been charged?

When did they announce that the findings would be delayed?

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:22 PM
There's been loads of it but you just don't accept it lol

T Shirts aside - and I have my own opinion regarding them.

I've said the following, tell me if you think any of it is wide of the mark.

Suarez used a word he shouldn't have used.
The FA have charged him for using the word
The FA have banned him for using that word

That doesn't mention the intention of the word, which Evra and the FA have both accepted probably wasn't racist in it's intention. The sorry state of this is that there is a good chance that he didn't intend it to be racist- yet the reaction from most people without much knowledge of what went on, is "its a good think they are stamping RACISM out of the country", "what a horrible player", like Suarez had used something explicitly and undeniably racist in its rhetoric (see John Terry, or the actual N bomb) - the public is so fucking stupid - that the least the FA could have done is explained that they've done him purely on the use of the word rather than the intent.

That's probably contained in the evidence files - I can't imagine they'd have anything stronger that what we already know - but it'll come way after the hatchet job's been done and no-one cares anymore.

Can you not see our side at all? I think my opinion, and placement overall is fairly middle ground, but definitely towards the club and Suarez at this point - I'm not denying he said something he shouldn't have - I just question the furore around it, the length of the ban, and how his reputation has been tarnished across the media and on 24 hour news channels, phone ins, chat shows - when a small addition to the FA statement (whose panel accepted he wasn't a racist) might have cleared it up.

We're all in agreement he's probably not a racist. Yet we're not in agreement that Liverpool and Kenny Dalglish are trying to remind people that he's not. Seems a bit odd.

quality
22nd December '11, 04:22 PM
Because saying South American just isn't offensive? Its not like he drew for mestizo or something.

Skin colour is different to regional/national insults, but maybe we disagree on that. I don't think Evra would have been offended if he was called a little Frenchman.

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:26 PM
When did they announce that the findings would be delayed?
This morning.


Because saying South American just isn't offensive? Its not like he drew for mestizo or something.

Skin colour is different to regional/national insults, but maybe we disagree on that. I don't think Evra would have been offended if he was called a little Frenchman.

That's fucking bollocks, and if you would really like, I'll quote you the FA Handbook rules, which includes Race, Nationality, Sex, and Sexual Preference, it is contrary to the same rule that Luis was charged by, regardless of whether you personally place racism in a bracket above other forms of discrimination. The word he used was Sudaca - a highly offensive word to people from South America.

Luis didn't make a complaint about it, Evra actually admitted it himself in the testimony, yet escaped sanction.

quality
22nd December '11, 04:29 PM
Do you think Suarez would have an 8 game ban if he called Evra a 'Frog'?

Pirate
22nd December '11, 04:31 PM
He said a racial slur and got banned. He probably isn't a committed racist like say a Klansman. Why is it so hard for you lot to grasp that you can say something racist without being a hardened racist?

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:31 PM
Do you think Suarez would have an 8 game ban if he called Evra a 'Frog'?

That's rather different and irrelevant considering it didn't happen.

Do you think Suarez would have been given an 8 game ban for speaking in a Spanish dialect, using a word that isn't offensive in that Spanish dialect, but is offensive in English? You bet!


He said a racial slur and got banned. He probably isn't a committed racist like say a Klansman. Why is it so hard for you lot to grasp that you can say something racist without being a hardened racist?

Everyone has grasped that buddy, even me, keep up.

Pirate
22nd December '11, 04:33 PM
That's rather different and irrelevant considering it didn't happen.

Do you think Suarez would have been given an 8 game ban for speaking in a Spanish dialect, using a word that isn't offensive in that Spanish dialect, but is offensive in English? You bet!
Everyone has grasped that buddy, even me, keep up.

We're in England, not Spain.
And you don't seem to have grasped it - you're saying he shouldn't hold the ban cos his teammates know he isnt racist

quality
22nd December '11, 04:35 PM
That's rather different and irrelevant considering it didn't happen.

Do you think Suarez would have been given an 8 game ban for speaking in a Spanish dialect, using a word that isn't offensive in that Spanish dialect, but is offensive in English? You bet!



Everyone has grasped that buddy, even me, keep up.

He wouldn't in a Spanish speaking country, but in an English speaking country you bet chum.

He's an idiot, he shouldn't have done it. The FA want to send a message about racism, and having seen racism both in the terraces and playing at weekends, I applaud that. Now take the same stance with Terry. Oh an release the report. If its not satisfactory, then get the legal team on it.


We're in England, not Spain.
And you don't seem to have grasped it - you're saying he shouldn't hold the ban cos his teammates know he isnt racist

I agree with this and your previous post.

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:40 PM
He wouldn't in a Spanish speaking country, but in an English speaking country you bet chum.

Touché but that's also bollocks because the conversation took place in Spanish. I'll bet money that it wouldn't be the case in a judicial system. Because in a real court of law, they'd listen to the mitigating factors, with the conversation in Spanish being the key one, and throw the case out.


He's an idiot, he shouldn't have done it.

Agree


Oh an release the report. If its not satisfactory, then get the legal team on it.

100%


you're saying he shouldn't hold the ban cos his teammates know he isnt racist

I have made many points, and merging my points together is fucking ridiculous mate.



I agree with this and your previous post.
:laugh:

quality
22nd December '11, 04:41 PM
Just following on from Hij 's point about a legal system, I assume the FA can take action against Terry following the legal case? in addition to any fine he may receive?

Jay
22nd December '11, 04:47 PM
Are the FA able to do anything if there hasn't been an incident reported to them by an Official or a player?

Hij
22nd December '11, 04:47 PM
@quality (http://www.grimeforum.com/forum/member.php?u=745)

This pretty much has been my stand point. If anyone remembers anything, BEFORE HE WAS BANNED, I said he should hold a ban for using a word he shouldn't have, but if the mitigating factors point to it not being a direct race abuse - then that should be made clear by the FA, perhaps with a lighter sentence (3-4 games), an explanation of the facts within the actual statement and a message that just using words that could offend people on their own, will be a punishable offence and players need to be educated. Sending a message about racism, while still applying it to the features of the individual case. He certainly made a faux pas once, and not 10 times, not all over the pitch etc.

Which is miles from throwing the book at him, not allowing him to appeal the verdict, and then releasing the evidence 3 weeks after the case when no-one really gives a shit, and potentially after the appeal date. They've royally fucked him, can you not see that?

Below is from another piece, I think its a fair piece and this is pretty much my position.



There is of course no place for racial insults, however intended, in modern football with the strides it has taken in extracting this cancer in the last 25 years.
But, as Tim Vickery mentioned in an excellent article on the same subject before the ruling, the FA had a perfect chance to demonstrate their ability to adapt to the demands of modern football. Taking Suarez in front of the board, explaining that such language can be construed in negative ways in England and handing out a light warning would have sent the player a clear message while not castigating him for his linguistic faux pas.

In throwing the book at the Uruguayan, however, the governing body has demonstrated an ignorance and clumsiness when faced with cultural sensitivities which has made it the object of outrage in one of the world's most inclusive football nations. Especially as there has apparently been no investigation into Evra for the alleged use of an equally derogatory word. The FA cannot treat one culture with more sensitivity than another.

Nevertheless, Suarez has been made to look ignorant and clumsy, too. And whatever his intentions were at Anfield on that day in mid-October, he really should have known better in the first place..

MyLord
22nd December '11, 04:58 PM
The fact you are all annoyed at this shows you that you believe Suarez to be a racist and to not have used a racial word unwittingly of which there was no question in the enquiry. there is a major difference between the two hence the slur and character assassination on him is complete .

The thing which baffles me is the whole Suarez is not racist thing. Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it the media who labelled Suarez a racist? Did the independent panel or FA label Suarez a racist? . . . So what happened at yesterday's game just seems like everyone was aiming their anger and hatred at the wrong people. imo

I just think that there's a few decisions that are being made up through anger and not thought through properly.


:lol: this is tacky and retarded.



The worst thing that could happen to JT is a 2K fine IIRC.




He won't get jailed and the max fine is £2,500 which shows the extent of the justice from the FA

I hope we weigh in on the FA with this JT case as ammunition


cool avi

Cool ban bro.

I'll swing it out with anyone but if your gonna try and properly write a post aimed at winding me up like that I'm not in the mood, not today.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

quality
22nd December '11, 04:59 PM
I agree with the sentiment of that. He should of held a ban, but ultimately its difficult to prove he's racist.

I wouldn't have expected responsible reporting from the tabs though. The same readership will send in letters about political correctness gone mad and get letter of the week (you can't even call a p*ki a p*ki anymore, what's the world coming to?) - controversy shifts units.

Hij
22nd December '11, 05:04 PM
I agree with the sentiment of that. He should of held a ban, but ultimately its difficult to prove he's racist.

I wouldn't have expected responsible reporting from the tabs though. The same readership will send in letters about political correctness gone mad and get letter of the week (you can't even call a p*ki a p*ki anymore, what's the world coming to?) - controversy shifts units.Fair enough.

I think Ima just post that same segment everytime anyone comments, I guess its because on here we like to wind each other up, sometimes shit gets a bit peak in the moment of it all.


The thing which baffles me is the whole Suarez is not racist thing. Correct me if i'm wrong but wasn't it the media who labelled Suarez a racist? Did the independent panel or FA label Suarez a racist?

Everyone involved believes that Suarez is not a racist but was edging on the stupid side of what he did when he opened his mouth and said that word. Liverpool I believe are very disappointed that despite this being raised by everyone within the hearing- an 8 match ban was handed out and there was no reference to that in the statement.

Which may have reduced the overly critical reaction to it, with everyone banging on about it over the country. They had the chance to deal with it a little better I think.

Scrappy123
22nd December '11, 05:04 PM
Agree with everything IMO except the last bit. Liverpool's reaction is that he has been branded a racist, when it's a bit of a grey area. Should they have banished Suarez from the stadium despite his protestations?



Being honest, imo 8 games is kind and that may well of been due to all this cultural differences etc. Obviously now if Terry only gets 8 games then there is something wrong here, but if Terry is given a much bigger ban then I don't really see where Suarez should feel more hard done by.

Hij
22nd December '11, 05:05 PM
Being honest, imo 8 games is kind and that may well of been due to all this cultural differences etc. Obviously now if Terry only gets 8 games then there is something wrong here, but if Terry is given a much bigger ban then I don't really see where Suarez should feel more hard done by.

I believe that the ban of games isn't really the issue here pal.

Mr Nasri
22nd December '11, 05:09 PM
If he said negrito negro. Even if he said hey negrito. I dnt care thats racist. He may not of meant it as a insult but he most likely did. He can tke these 8 games off now and the prick can learn how to finish. Simple

Hij
22nd December '11, 05:11 PM
If he said negrito negro. Even if he said hey negrito. I dnt care thats racist. He may not of meant it as a insult but he most likely did. He can tke these 8 games off now and the prick can learn how to finish. Simple

What a delightful addition to the forum

Mr Nasri
22nd December '11, 05:13 PM
What a delightful addition to the forum

If i go around saying honkey is that racist?

Simple

MyLord
22nd December '11, 05:14 PM
If he said negrito negro. Even if he said hey negrito. I dnt care thats racist. He may not of meant it as a insult but he most likely did. He can tke these 8 games off now and the prick can learn how to finish. Simple

:dead:

Jay
22nd December '11, 05:14 PM
Whats happening with regards to the fulham gesture aswel? Could be f'd in the a if they add further ban on from that.

Hij
22nd December '11, 05:15 PM
That's simply a fine, if they add a ban on, then the FA are picking on him.


If i go around saying honkey is that racist?

Simple

Lol this guy is not gonna last long.

Mr Nasri
22nd December '11, 05:17 PM
That's simply a fine, if they add a ban on, then the FA are picking on him.



Lol this guy is not gonna last long.

I'm not trolling etc. Im just stating facts. I would expect the same punishment towards any player saying a racial word to a player.

MyLord
22nd December '11, 05:19 PM
I'm not trolling etc. Im just stating facts. I would expect the same punishment towards any player saying a racial word to a player.
lll

Realize that the biggest challenge in interpreting slang is that the linguist understands the expression that is being communicated with the slang word. Different languages have different slang terms, but despite that all the slang words are trying to express the same basic emotions of excitement, joy, fear, disgust, anger etc. So instead of looking for a literal translation of the slang word, it is important that the interpreter have the relevant cultural context to understand what the person is trying to express and then convey the expression in the target language.

Hij
22nd December '11, 05:20 PM
That was a better post Mr Nasri your previous two were barely coherent, like me after a session

MyLord
22nd December '11, 05:21 PM
Whats happening with regards to the fulham gesture aswel? Could be f'd in the a if they add further ban on from that.

probs be a fine. If they ban him, we riot:angry:

Scrappy123
22nd December '11, 05:48 PM
Yeh the gesture to the Fulham fans should just be a fine.


inb43gameban.:laugh:

Hij
22nd December '11, 05:49 PM
probs be a fine. If they ban him, we riot:angry::laugh:

Hij
22nd December '11, 06:10 PM
I do laugh at Hansen being attacked for using the word coloured instead of the supposedly correct term black and Suarez being attacked for using the Spanish word for "black" in a conversation in Spanish.

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 06:18 PM
Hansen saying "black players" is cool hes refering to a group of player if he said something like "that black lad, Defoe" then that's a bit different. "Coloured" was used back in the day, I'd knock a don out for calling me coloured tbh. Not sure if that makes sense but meh Im merry SNM

lol @ paps being banned, its cool for you to have sone banter about it al Hijl but as soon as someone says something you draw gor the hammer :smh:

Pls dont ban/neg me for this post it is just my opinion and I didnt even return that last neg you gave me r/s

NSF
22nd December '11, 06:21 PM
Hansen saying "black players" is cool hes refering to a group of player if he said something like "that black lad, Defoe" then that's a bit different. "Coloured" was used back in the day, I'd knock a don out for calling me coloured tbh. Not sure if that makes sense but meh Im merry SNM

lol @ paps being banned, its cool for you to have sone banter about it al Hijl but as soon as someone says something you draw gor the hammer :smh:

Pls dont ban/neg me for this post it is just my opinion and I didnt even return that last neg you gave me r/s
Hansen said coloured not black bro lol

Hij
22nd December '11, 06:30 PM
I rarely ban anyone in the sports room. I said I'd unban him later.

That stench you can smell is not a bowl of stewing sprouts brewing for Christmas Day lunch. It is the foul stench of cant emanating from the Football Association after an "independent" disciplinary panel resolved to ban Liverpool's Luis Suarez for 8 matches and to fine him £40,000.

Suarez, himself of mixed ethnic background and with friends, team mates and relatives of all races - none of whom has ever had any reason to view the Uruguayan as a racist - now finds himself tarred by the FA as a racist. You can nuance the finding if you wish. Technically even Evra and the FA accept that Suarez is not a racist as such - he merely used a racial slur.

But when have football fans or the wider public ever been nuanced in these things? Radio and TV phone-ins already see Suarez condemned as a racist and so it was last night at the DW Stadium as Wigan fans greeted Liverpool's star player with chants of "racist, racist" that will surely follow him until he leaves England and plays overseas again.

The basis of the FA's finding? Well, at present we do not know. This in itself is astonishing.

As a lawyer I am familiar (but have always been uncomfortable) with judges deciding the outcome of a hearing but reserving their reasons until later. This has always struck me as a very unsatisfactory way of operating at the best of times. It has felt that this gives judges the chance to shoehorn their reasoning to fit the decision they wanted to reach, which seems the antithesis of fairness. If a judge cannot give reasons for a decision at the time he or she hands down that decision then that decision should ordinarily not be handed down until reasons - even outlined reasons - can be given.

When someone such as Luis Suarez's public reputation, livelihood and future are at stake as a result of having been accused of the most heinous of modern sins, this modus operandi among those holding quasi-judicial office is surely inexcusable.


Liverpool Football Club and Suarez himself have presumably seen all of the evidence on which the FA tribunal has based its decision - if not then that hearing will not have been in any way fair or impartial. It certainly appears that the FA had predetermined the outcome and sits as prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner. From the outset the FA seemed intent, as Liverpool FC said in a remarkable statement excoriating the FA, on bringing charges against Suarez even before interviewing him. If the police behaved in such a way then people would rightly be up in arms.

And yet because blazer-clad administrators in Soho Square are desperate to tweak the nose of FIFA President Sepp Blatter in an attempt to appear "right on" and "modern", Suarez is hauled before a disciplinary panel to face "evidence" in the form of one person's word - Patrice Evra - against his own.

Evra himself, of course, is no stranger to controversy. He made similar allegations three years ago after a bust up following a game at Chelsea's Stamford Bridge ground. Those allegations were dismissed as baseless. He committed the equivalent of diving to get another player sent off. On the field that would have merited a yellow card. Off the field it has led to him being heralded as an oracle.

And even in the match that gave rise to Evra's complaint against Luis Suarez, Evra apparently came out with the self-pitying gem of race baiters everywhere of "Is it because I'm black" when a decision was awarded against him by the referee. That, again, was a disgraceful accusation to levy at an official. Suffice to say, nothing happened to him because he is now untouchable by officialdom.

Evra claims Suarez racially abused him 10 times. Not a single other player on the pitch heard that abuse. Not even his Manchester United colleagues. In fact Evra admits denigrating and abusing Suarez first, making reference to his Latino heritage. And yet Evra has not been hauled before Soho Square's finest to face similar charges. Why not? Double standards anyone?

Rather than dealing with the matter professionally and proportionately, the Football Association has opened up a hornets' nest. Its ham-fisted handling of the investigatory and disciplinary process - taking 2 months to reach a decision that even Liverpool's enemies consider to be excessive and ill-founded - brings yet further discredit on the governing body of our national game in the eyes of fans.
Liverpool's players stand in open revolt against the FA and it will not take much for this to spiral even further, leading to dangerous tensions between Liverpool and Manchester United supporters escalating.

Given how inept the FA is, how long until Liverpool's entire squad and the club are charged by the FA themselves with bringing the game into disrepute or some such similar "offence"?

The FA's failure - two days on - to publish its reasons in full and to release all of the documentation put before the disciplinary tribunal can only lead supporters of Suarez to conclude that the process was inherently unfair, the outcome was predetermined and the FA is no longer fit for purpose. It's the FA that should stand in the dock today. Not Luis Suarez.


its cool for you to have sone banter about it al @Hij (http://www.grimeforum.com/forum/member.php?u=1) l but as soon as someone says something you draw gor the hammer :smh:
Then why isn't everyone else banned? I just took exception to him putting words in my mouth, that because I am white this is all about the 8 game ban for me and us losing our best player. It's nothing of the sort, if the club believe a genuine injustice has taken place and they should know then I wanna see it looked into for the players reputation.

If it takes getting points docked, so be it.

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 06:36 PM
Hansen said coloured not black bro lol

I know, I was refering to what Hij said in the post before mine

Hij, Im guessing there are some black Liverpool fans that dont feel the same as you do about the while situation, if Santos was in the same position as Suarez I definatly wouldnt buy one of them t-shirts.

:smh: @ that last sentance, you're a Football club first if it ever was a docking points thing I'd imagine the club/fans would pipe down

M.O.G.
22nd December '11, 06:39 PM
There's been loads of it but you just don't accept it lol

Show me some common sense please?

Other than the 'rah rah liverpool have come out of it looking stupid, pretentious manager, whiny geezer..rah rah' rubbish.

Can someone pin-point what Liverpool have done wrong? Please, just pin-point it, Supporting their player? wearing t-shirts to support said player? what
have they done wrong? lol

Hij
22nd December '11, 06:41 PM
I know, I was refering to what Hij said in the post before mine

Hij, Im guessing there are some black Liverpool fans that dont feel the same as you do about the while situation, if Santos was in the same position as Suarez I definatly wouldnt buy one of them t-shirts.
I know several black Liverpool fans who agree with everything I have said.

What do you mean "buy one of them t shirts" they aren't up for sale to fans

Author’s note: This is not about Luis Suarez, or Liverpool, or the Football Association, or the rights and wrongs of the case which led to the striker being suspended for eight games and fined £40,000. Enough has been written on that subject by my peers and superiors in what might be termed the football commentariat; I have little of worth to add, on that subject, and, even as a Spanish speaker and a former inhabitant of South America, have no more qualification than most to do so.


What has struck me as remarkable, in the days since the verdict was announced, was how many people “know” what Suarez said, and even why he said it. This is quite a feat, when the evidence is bafflingly yet to be released. The debate remains one of impassioned ignorance. I do not wish to become embroiled in an uninformed discussion of fairness and unfairness, of claim and counter-claim. This is not about Suarez, or Liverpool, or the FA. It is about what it is to be English, and what the last few days have shown us about our nation.


I should, of course, declare a bias; not the one that has so polarised assessment of the case and of the judgment, between those who mindlessly admit no wrongdoing on the part of a hero and those who have sought to see a man labelled a racist simply so a rival football team might be deprived of their best player, but that of the self-loathing Englishman, and that of the Hispanophile, and that of the natural, inherent contrarian. All other considerations, I hope, have been removed.





THE THREE white men sat in a room. The milky light of winter seeped through the windows. Realisation dawned in their minds. Before them was a case of the utmost complexity, but one they must unpick. They made unlikely arbiters of justice. A former football manager. The chairman of a local FA. A highly-regarded QC. Eminent in their diverse roles, of course, but now placed in a position understandably well beyond much of their experience.




The case was unprecedented: not just to them, but, as far as anyone in that room could tell, to anyone. On the surface, for all the investigation that had gone into it, it was simply one man’s word against another. Below that, at least in one interpretation, it was bound up with issues of cultural relativism it would require a scholar to explain. These three men, the lawyer, the manager, the administrator, had been selected by cruel kismet to unpick the semantics, to navigate between the nuance, and to deliver a judgment.


What’s in a word? Whichever of the two words allegedly used, no natural equivalent exists in English. It has been used both as defence and prosecution that both the words – negro and negrito *– might be used affectionately. Here, perhaps, there is a parallel. The word ‘pal’ might be used affectionately. Indeed, if you were to explain it to a non-native speaker, you would describe it, perhaps, as a friendly placeholder. Have it growled at you in Glaswegian, though, in the sentence “You looking at me, pal?” and there is nothing affectionate about it. The meaning of a word, especially a placeholder, lies in no small part in the delivery.


But what of the reference to colour? In England, that is clearly intolerable. Of that there is no question. Even in an age when we live, largely peacefully, in a multi-cultural society, we are not a country who like to mention colour. And, of course, the offence took place in England. Our house, our rules? Fine. More importantly, the central tenet of what can and cannot be defined as racist has long been seen not as the intention of the perpetrator but the interpretation of the victim.


But, then, in the plaintiff’s defence, his own cultural heritage, his own understanding of what is acceptable. In his homeland, it seems, such words are used simply as descriptives, and certainly without enormously offensive overtones. The Argentines, for example, pepper their speech with the word “che”. Mate, pal, man. It is used almost unconsciously. It can be substituted for a more personalised term, though. Rubio. Gordo. As one of the defendant’s countrymen put it, this is a place where, if you have a big nose, your nickname is big nose. A big head, and it’s big head. If you have darker skin – not black, just darker – then you are negro. Not “a negro”. Simply negro. Sensitive? No, not at all. But deliberately offensive, designed to wound and directed to hurt? Not really.


Both arguments have their merits. If a white English player called a black English player “n******”, it would be an open and shut discussion. There would be no discussion. No ifs or buts. We all know the effect, the loading, of that word. Whichever way you see it, to suggest that this case is not more nuanced, more complex, more intricate is borne of either incomprehension or arrogance.


In such an instance, any punishment handed out – or indeed any reprieve afforded, since it seems the defendant did accept use of one of the terms under discussion –should, presumably, reflect that nuance. Perhaps a minor ban with a far heftier one, one to make clear that not learning from your inability to accept our cultural sensitivity would be utterly unacceptable, suspended above it?


Alas no. The lawyer, the manager and the administrator, looked at this fine-mesh case, this argument of intent and interpretation and this issue of cultural relativism, and brought down upon it the swingeing sword of righteousness. A draconian penalty, a message sent. This is our land. You will play by our rules. Assimilate or die. This is Albion, perfect. Perfidious.


The Football Association’s Independent Panel, of course, are not lawmakers. The FA occupies a curious role in society; it is a state within a state. A person subject to its laws can commit an offence that, by possessing both mens rea and being, in itself, an actus reus, is a crime, on English sovereign soil and yet not be judged by a criminal court. Ask Roy Keane, and Alfe-Inge Haaland’s knee. Aggravated assault? No. Fine and a ban? Yes. Those patches of greensward up and down the land are FA embassies, in effect. What happens there is under their jurisdiction. It is only when those in the stands become involved that the police may intervene. The ones on the pitch have diplomatic immunity.


It gets stranger: the FA is not just a judge and a jury, but a plaintiff in itself, too. That was shown in the appeal of Wayne Rooney’s red card against Montenegro. That, to the FA, is a three-match ban. Except when Uefa’s sliding punishment structures allow, when it might only be a two-match ban. That conflict of interest is unavoidable, thanks to the way the administrative side of the game is constructed, but it is also undeniable. The FA’s reasoning is that the clubs do not want sliding scales of punishment, that Uefa permits it, that there are different standards and different practices. Occam’s Razor, though, applies: the simplest of several explanations is the most likely. The FA has a dual role.


In neither does it make the law. It has, despite that, in the Suarez case, set what might be termed a media precedent. The reaction to the guilty verdict, the ban and the rancour from Liverpool that followed, on the part of the newsmakers was that the FA had taken an important step to show the world that racism in any form is not acceptable in this country. Quite right. It is more than that, though: we must now accept that we believe, as a media and, by extension, as a mewling nation, that the basic rule of society dictates that an immigrant must conform to the laws of the country in which they find themselves.


That is absolutely fine. Consistency, though, is the key. The next time a British couple are arrested in Dubai for holding hands in a mall, or jailed for kissing in a public place, we can only presume not one of the same media outlets who have so heartily backed the decision of the FA’s independent panel will criticise the legal system of the UAE.








They will, of course. Hypocrisy is an English disease. It infests every part of our lives. That became clear with the cringe-inducing international campaign for the national team to wear poppies on its shirts, swiftly followed by the outrage at the very idea that Argentina might be allowed to adorn its Olympic uniforms with a badge signifying the Malvinas conflict.


It is permitted, though, because English culture is so unstintingly convinced of its own superiority. The Suarez verdict has shown that to the world. The panel have taken into consideration the idea that, elsewhere in the world, words are not quite so loaded, colour not quite such a taboo identifier, and decreed that such an approach is outdated. We pride ourselves – in many ways correctly – as standing in the vanguard in the fight against racism. But in doing so we too often find ourselves preaching that others must follow our lead. Perhaps they do not need to; perhaps in Latin America the issue of racial discrimination manifests in a different way, and therefore requires a different treatment.


Besides, our approach is not flawless. There is an allegation that Patrice Evra, Suarez’s target, labelled him a “South American”. This is a strange thing for a footballer to say. It has been suggested that Evra, a Spanish speaker and a close friend of Carlos Tevez, may have used the term sudaco, a word applied to South Americans by other Spanish speakers, and one considered deeply offensive.


Not in England, though. Liverpool’s assertion that Evra should be punished for that insult was, rightly, derided as the last desperate snatch of the damned, a vapid attempt to sully his name in a bid to lessen the negativity around Suarez.


Putting that to one side, it was never a logic that would elicit much sympathy. We may not like to mention colour in this country, but where ethnicity is taboo, nationality is not. An imperfect example: I have a Scottish friend, who is obviously quite the skinflint. I have another friend, who’s black, and therefore isn’t the strongest swimmer. Both of those comments are derogatory, prejudiced and based on the most hackneyed, malicious and inaccurate stereotypes (and, needless to say, are entirely hypothetical and do not represent my views). One will have caused you to flinch. The other will not.


Why should the colour of your skin be a source of offence but the place of your birth, the land of your parents not? Racism has long been a vile stain on our society, but so too xenophobia. Both have resulted in a myriad deaths and countless horrors. It is a question I cannot answer: perhaps we have evolved beyond the nation state. Perhaps racism is the more virulent of two poisons. Or perhaps a culture which continues to place such a taboo on the very issue of race, which is so conscious of colour that it will not permit its mention, is suffering from an ultimate hypocrisy: not being quite as advanced as it claims to be.

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 06:44 PM
How do you know they're not for sale? When was the last time you went Anfield bro?








http://files.sharenator.com/TROLL_FACE_Snappels_first_troll-s469x140-251123-535.jpg

Hij
22nd December '11, 06:46 PM
How do you know they're not for sale? When was the last time you went Anfield bro?

Because they were created specially yesterday and there isn't a match on at Anfield today bro.

Trap*
22nd December '11, 06:48 PM
glen_johnson: I will support who i want when i want!!! There are a lot of reasons why I'm standing by Luis Suarez!!!

Hij
22nd December '11, 06:53 PM
glen_johnson: I will support who i want when i want!!! There are a lot of reasons why I'm standing by Luis Suarez!!!
Woiiiiiiii


Puts to bed the rumour that he was forced to put the T Shirt on then.

chris89
22nd December '11, 06:57 PM
Glen Johnson top bounty

Hij
22nd December '11, 06:59 PM
Glen Johnson top bounty
But theres no difference between black and white.

Racist.

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 07:01 PM
Glen Johnson top bounty

.

Sir Kippington
22nd December '11, 07:01 PM
I know, I was refering to what Hij said in the post before mine

Hij, Im guessing there are some black Liverpool fans that dont feel the same as you do about the while situation, if Santos was in the same position as Suarez I definatly wouldnt buy one of them t-shirts.

:smh: @ that last sentance, you're a Football club first if it ever was a docking points thing I'd imagine the club/fans would pipe down

Someone send me one of those t shirts now.
I'll wear that at the Christmas dinner table.

chris89
22nd December '11, 07:03 PM
But theres no difference between black and white.

Racist.

I'm not sure if you're serious

Julio Cesar
22nd December '11, 07:05 PM
Glen Johnson top bounty

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2418/waisisza7.gif

Sir Kippington
22nd December '11, 07:07 PM
Nice post hij

chris89
22nd December '11, 07:07 PM
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/2418/waisisza7.gif

Just like your club captain
















w8

Sir Kippington
22nd December '11, 07:09 PM
Talksprot are going in on LFC.lol

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 07:09 PM
:woah:

chris89

chris89
22nd December '11, 07:10 PM
Talksprot are going in on LFC.lol

Someone told me this, so I went on and they started talking about cricket and shit, so I switched it off, now I'm seeing it again ffs lol

Sir Kippington
22nd December '11, 07:13 PM
Yeah man, getting pelters, even Kenny getting it..they talking bout spurs now

Nigel
22nd December '11, 07:13 PM
Too many people in this thread who only worry about racism when it affects them, not others tbh.

I bet you many players get called white, English, French, ect. followed by an insult week in, week out in the Premiership and don't care. But because its a minority it matters alot more.

Imo, things like this and some responses show why racism in sports will never be gone. More emphasis on TV and stuff is now being put on colour and race in football, other week was a bit on 'Black managers' on football focus, getting bits on how racism was in the 80's on sky, commentators constantly bringing it up. None of this is moving forwards, its in some cases moving backwards. Race as a whole needs to be taken out of the equation in football, it should just be teams and international teams, and in cases should be delt with on a smaller scale, quickly and with well researched reasoning aswell.

Hij
22nd December '11, 07:15 PM
Liverpool striker Luis Suarez will appeal against his Football Association punishment for racially abusing Patrice Evra, according to his lawyer.

Alejandro Balbi, who is also Suarez's agent, said his player was "convinced" the punishment would be reversed.

Suarez was handed an eight-game ban and £40,000 fine after he used "insulting words in reference to Manchester United defender Evra's colour".

"It seems to us absolutely out of proportion," Balbi said.

"It's one of the hardest sanctions handed down in English football.

"He [Suarez] is firmly convinced this hard sanction can be reversed."

Speaking at a news conference in Uruguay capital Montevideo, Balbi said that it would be Liverpool's lawyers who made the appeal to the FA.

Suarez, who denied the allegations, has 14 days to launch his appeal against the decision. Should he do so, there is a possibility length of the ban could be increased.


The FA handed the sanctions to Suarez after a six-day hearing found he racially abused Evra in the 1-1 draw at Anfield on 15 October.


The Liverpool players warmed up for Wednesday night's game at Wigan wearing t-shirts in support of Suarez and also released a statement declaring their backing for the 24-year-old.


The Uruguayan Football Association has also offered Suarez and Liverpool whatever backing they need for an appeal, and Suarez has received support from Uruguay captain Diego Lugano.


Nice post hij
Not mine, Rory Smith's mate.

Hutch
22nd December '11, 07:16 PM
Too many people in this thread who only worry about racism when it affects them, not others tbh.

I bet you many players get called white, English, French, ect. followed by an insult week in, week out in the Premiership and don't care. But because its a minority it matters alot more.

Imo, things like this and some responses show why racism in sports will never be gone. More emphasis on TV and stuff is now being put on colour and race in football, other week was a bit on 'Black managers' on football focus, getting bits on how racism was in the 80's on sky, commentators constantly bringing it up. None of this is moving forwards, its in some cases moving backwards. Race as a whole needs to be taken out of the equation in football, it should just be teams and international teams, and in cases should be delt with on a smaller scale, quickly and with well researched reasoning aswell.

If it's against white people it doesn't count, that's the rules apparently.

chris89
22nd December '11, 07:17 PM
http://www.kopsource.com/wp-content/postimages/750-luis-suarez-wants-england-move.jpg

Jack 1017
22nd December '11, 07:29 PM
If it's against white people it doesn't count, that's the rules apparently.

I can confirm these rules bros

Trap*
22nd December '11, 07:30 PM
5bV6QXGKl8o

Samir_NasG
22nd December '11, 07:33 PM
Embarrassing from Liverpool FC

NSF
22nd December '11, 07:35 PM
I can confirm these rules brosThanks bro

Hutch
22nd December '11, 07:36 PM
I can confirm these rules bros

Thanks bro, these damn crackers always moaning.

Hij
22nd December '11, 07:37 PM
Embarrassing from Liverpool FC
If he appeals and wins I assume you'll say that they were excellent and tactic for sticking by their player when they could have cast him out.

Samir_NasG
22nd December '11, 07:39 PM
If he appeals and wins I assume you'll say that they were excellent and tactic for sticking by their player when they could have cast him out.

don't assume it makes an ASS out of U and ME. sort my account out man, can't post properly ffs.

chris89
22nd December '11, 07:51 PM
don't assume it makes an ASS out of U and ME. sort my account out man, can't post properly ffs.

please confirm if your account has been broken since December 2010?

Hij
22nd December '11, 08:05 PM
don't assume it makes an ASS out of U and ME. sort my account out man, can't post properly ffs.
Who needed to bring ass into it?

Faggit.

187
22nd December '11, 08:26 PM
don't assume it makes an ASS out of U and ME. sort my account out man, can't post properly ffs.


Who needed to bring ass into it?

Faggit.
:laugh::laugh:

Burden Durden
22nd December '11, 09:32 PM
My bro was at the fulham united game yesterday and said the united fans were singing 'justice for evra' and the suarez chant replaced with 'racist bastard' at the end lol.

Hij
22nd December '11, 09:38 PM
Not even playing us. Epic

Big 45
22nd December '11, 10:16 PM
FA need to release their report so we can put an end to this.

The whole situation is just annoying/getting embarrassing now tbh.

Hij
22nd December '11, 11:19 PM
FA need to release their report so we can put an end to this.

The whole situation is just annoying/getting embarrassing now tbh.

This

Hij
22nd December '11, 11:20 PM
If they had categorical evidence release it

Boris Bowser
22nd December '11, 11:26 PM
lol @ how all of this is taking the limelight off the real racist, John Terry.

also lol @ Riko Dan saying on Twitter that Liverpool is a racist club cos they have no black players. What an idiot.

Eric Cantona
23rd December '11, 12:35 AM
m5PA6lah_kY

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:04 AM
Not a surprise to see that guy Hij peddling his club's bullshit on here. Fact of the matter is that every non-Liverpool supporter who I've seen air an opinion on LFC's handling of this whole situation thinks their stance on the issue is repugnant.

He's been found guilty of using Evra's skin colour as a reason to abuse him. Not the FA, who Liverpool seem to think are conspiring against them to split up the club (Kenneth Daglish even implied as such), but by an independent panel which includes a QC. Do you, or your club, know what a QC is? If you do, do you think they'd ban Suarez on Evra's word alone? Again, pretty much every non-Liverpool fan I've seen is willing to give a member of the Queen's Counsel the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't (and would advise the other two members of the panel that they shouldn't), but Liverpool fans seem to think that's the case. RAWK seems to be in two minds as to Suarez has actually admitted anything though, so perhaps you guys really ought to sort that whole issue out before commenting on the wider case. I would sign up to RAWK and tell them as much, but of course registrations are currently disabled.

The biggest problem with your club's statement is the claim that Patrice Evra has a history of making allegations of racial abuse. This, as far as 90% of Liverpool fans, is pretty much regarded as fact. The only issue with it is that it's completely and utterly wrong. I'm pretty certain that one of the alleged incidents related to Evra's confrontation with a member of the Chelsea groundstaff. The FA report says that it never received a complaint about racism from Patrice Evra himself, but from two members of United's backroom staff, including Mike Phelan, our current assistant manager. If you care to find the report into this incident, you'll be able to confirm what I've just told you.

The other incident is mysterious. Could it be the Finnan incident in 2006? Surely not - surely Liverpool Football Club would have actually read the report into this incident? If any of you guys want to, go ahead, but avoid just reading the title: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2006/mar/01/newsstory.sport

Here's a nice piece on an unofficial Liverpool blog that attempts to debunk the myth that Evra has a history of racial allegations. (http://www.liverpool-kop.com/2011/12/debunking-lfc-myths-no-11-patrice-evra.html)

That's only the first thing wrong with the statement on LFC's official website, but there's far more. Let's start at the beginning:


Liverpool Football Club is very surprised and disappointed with the decision of the Football Association Commission to find Luis Suarez guilty of the charges against him.

We look forward to the publication of the Commission's Judgment. We will study the detailed reasons of the Commission once they become available, but reserve our right to appeal or take any other course of action we feel appropriate with regards to this situation.

That's fine, but the fact that they haven't heard the detailed reasons of the verdict due to the fact that it hasn't be publicised is going to negate what they say next.


We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone when no-one else on the field of play - including Evra's own Manchester United teammates and all the match officials - heard the alleged conversation between the two players in a crowded Kop goalmouth while a corner kick was about to be taken.

So in the very paragraph after they've admitted they've not heard the detailed reasons of the verdict, they've decided that a panel including a QC have found Suarez guilty simply on the word of Patrice Evra? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.


LFC considers racism in any form to be unacceptable - without compromise. It is our strong held belief, having gone over the facts of the case, that Luis Suarez did not commit any racist act. It is also our opinion that the accusation by this particular player was not credible - certainly no more credible than his prior unfounded accusations.

See above where I pointed out that Evra has never made any such allegations before.


It is key to note that Patrice Evra himself in his written statement in this case said 'I don't think that Luis Suarez is racist'. The FA in their opening remarks accepted that Luis Suarez was not racist.

This is another big problem with the statement, and indeed among Liverpool supporters. Suarez hasn't been charged with racism. Evra has said that he doesn't think Suarez is a racist (although I think he actually means that he doesn't 'necessarily' think he's a racist). The charges against him are using Evra's skin colour to provoke him. That doesn't mean that Suarez thinks that Rosa Parks should sit at the back of the bus, it just means, at the very least, that Suarez is a bit of an idiot. I think it's fair to say, whatever the conclusion of this case after the appeal, that Suarez is a massive idiot.


Luis himself is of a mixed race family background as his grandfather was black.

Honestly? It's like saying that someone can't be a misogynist because they have a grandmother. In fact, I watched an excellent interview by James Earl Jones on HardTalk a few weeks ago. Here's a snippet of it:

James Earl Jones on his 'racist grandmother' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/9655708.stm)


He has been personally involved since the 2010 World Cup in a charitable project which uses sport to encourage solidarity amongst people of different backgrounds with the central theme that the colour of a person's skin does not matter; they can all play together as a team.

He has played with black players and mixed with their families whilst with the Uruguay national side and was Captain at Ajax Amsterdam of a team with a proud multi-cultural profile, many of whom became good friends.

Again, this is Spectacularly missing the point. Suarez has not been charged with racism! No one of any importance has called him a racist. The charge is using language which relates to a player's race on the football pitch.


It seems incredible to us that a player of mixed heritage should be accused and found guilty in the way he has based on the evidence presented. We do not recognise the way in which Luis Suarez has been characterised.

What? A mixed-race person can't be racist? I'm pretty certain that they can be. As we all know with the hatred for Somalians, black people can be racist towards other black people. What the fuck was the Rwandan Genocide all about? I know both mixed race and black people that are racist towards other black people. It's an absurd excuse by LFC.

What's even worse is that LFC have suddenly published a video of Suarez in Africa with black children. Again, missing the point by LFC, but their fans think it proves something. I read RAWK after Blatter's comments and they all found it hideous that he had a picture of him having a handshake with a black man at the top of the page. Suarez doesn't have a particularly bright lawyer either:

http://gfx.dagbladet.no/labrador/195/195185/19518566/jpg/active/480x.jpg

It's exactly the same thing as what Blatter did and I'm pretty certain that Hij thought that Blatter picture with Tokyo Sexwale was, at the very least, funny. The pictorial evidence that proves Suarez isn't a racist is probably a master stroke from LFC though, isn't it? The only problem is that Suarez hasn't been charged with being a racist.

A few journalists seem to think that the word in question is 'negro' and not 'negrito' btw. Yes, I appreciate that negro in Spanish means black, but what is the context? If you honestly think he meant either in a nice way, especially if he said it the alleged 10 times, then you're very much in the minority.

It's key to note that Johnson, despite backing Suarez in this case, hasn't come out and said that he's been called negrito by Suarez before. Nor have any of his former team mates at Ajax.

What do I want from writing all this? Not much. I'd just like Hij to acknowledge several facts that I've made clear to him (most importantly the myth about Evra's history of racial allegations and the fact that Suarez hasn't been charged with being a racist, nor is using such language necessarily racist. Why Hij? I read RAWK, where Hij is a member, since it's the biggest Liverpool forum and pretty much everyone who's spoken on the subject on that website has no idea of the difference between remarks relating to someone's race (esp. in a heated confrontation) and believing that Rosa Parks should sit out at the back of the bus. A large majority of posters on there also peddle the old Evra myth and although a few point out that it's a myth from time to time, it keeps returning as a 'fact'. It's not really surprising to see where Liverpool fans get it from when you read such statements from their club though.

I would like Hij to make it clear to them, but I appreciate that's probably far too much to ask for someone with such an agenda.

Also, am I allowed back on here yet?

DTR
23rd December '11, 01:06 AM
also lol @ Riko Dan saying on Twitter that Liverpool is a racist club cos they have no black players. What an idiot.
:laugh:

Josh
23rd December '11, 01:13 AM
long post

wow. killed it. fair play revz

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:19 AM
Thanks.

It's also pretty hilarious hearing John Barnes say the ignorance is an excuse and Liverpool fans agreeing with him. Charles Itanje was hounded out of Liverpool for laughing with someone whilst at an Hillsborough memorial. It wasn't an excuse then, was it? Or maybe it was a cultural misunderstanding, oh wait.

Watch this hilarious Dave Chappelle stand up where he discusses ignorance to the law.

JJ3dk6KAvQM

"I'm sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that" :laugh:

Genetically Genuine
23rd December '11, 01:43 AM
revzy went in eishh

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 02:42 AM
Suarez was leading this poll by 33% a few days ago, and now Nani is winning by 1% just as the poll is about to close :laugh:

They think it's a conspiracy from Sky because they don't want such a player named as their player of 2011, but it's more likely that Sky have just clocked onto the fact that their fans have been deleting their cookies and voting 50 times.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=284297.0

A real quote from that thread:



I highly doubt that Sky will want to announce Luis Suarez as the winner. I just dont think they will let it happen
which is why we must keep voting - rvp coming up now on 26%
I've been doing this most of the day

Sums up their fans. I don't think there's any set of fans quite like them.

And to be fair, Nani, and definitely not Suarez don't have an argument as the best player of 2011.

Nani started off the 2010/2011 season on fire, but he wasn't anything special after in 2011 last season. He has been pretty awesome so far this season though, especially yesterday. Suarez barely has a 1 goal in 3 games record in the league, which is pretty shocking for a 'top' striker. Plus I'm pretty sure he must have the worst shot to goals ratio out of players with more than 5 goals.

I voted for Van Persie. He's possibly going to break the record for goals in a calendar year if he gets a couple of more goals.

Scrappy123
23rd December '11, 02:48 AM
Nani>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

deserving winner although I would give it to RVP.

Shower Posse
23rd December '11, 02:52 AM
I have to say Rvp has been going on I'll this year

MoneyMan
23rd December '11, 03:00 AM
Suarez was leading this poll by 33% a few days ago, and now Nani is winning by 1% just as the poll is about to close :laugh:

They think it's a conspiracy from Sky because they don't want such a player named as their player of 2011, but it's more likely that Sky have just clocked onto the fact that their fans have been deleting their cookies and voting 50 times.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=284297.0

A real quote from that thread:



Sums up their fans. I don't think there's any set of fans quite like them.

And to be fair, Nani, and definitely not Suarez don't have an argument as the best player of 2011.

Nani started off the 2010/2011 season on fire, but he wasn't anything special after in 2011 last season. He has been pretty awesome so far this season though, especially yesterday. Suarez barely has a 1 goal in 3 games record in the league, which is pretty shocking for a 'top' striker. Plus I'm pretty sure he must have the worst shot to goals ratio out of players with more than 5 goals.

I voted for Van Persie. He's possibly going to break the record for goals in a calendar year if he gets a couple of more goals.

*sigh* that argument about his goal ratio is dead, anyone who has watched even 2% of Liverpool this season will know he is by far their best and most creative player, and should be judged on way more than just his goal contribution, which is hardly Torres-like anyway.

Neither Nani or Suarez have been Prem player of 2011 though, obviously that's RVP.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 03:10 AM
Suarez is a good player, there's no denying it. I can't see why you shouldn't judge a striker on his shot to goals ratio though. If Suarez was a winger or a central midfielder, you'd have more of a point but there's still the matter of them being far too wasteful.

I have no actual numbers regarding his shot ratio, btw, it's just something I've noticed by watching him.

A quick google shows:

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56323000/jpg/_56323568_sureaz_chances_missed_464(4).jpg

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/56323000/jpg/_56323565_liverpool_attempts_shots_ratio_464(2).jp g

Although the point that I don't want missed is the hilarity of Liverpool fans in that thread. Complaining to Sky because they couldn't fix a poll in their favour. Do these guys ask if they can have their weed back when they get a warning for cannabis?

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 03:23 AM
CGWGbE27ZX8

Shower Posse
23rd December '11, 03:29 AM
Dzeko has 8 goals this season :shocked:
Rah

Hutch
23rd December '11, 03:38 AM
CGWGbE27ZX8

:laugh::laugh: people that keep clicking on something thinking 'hopefully it will work this time, no? ok maybe if I try again it will, ok this time...' <<<<<

RvP is clearly player of the year lol at Nani getting it. These polls are never accurate cos teams like United have thousands of sad fans that watch for these polls all the time and vote multiple times. Any poll like this a United player will win. It's just a popularity contest, no thought goes into the votes.

JamesC
23rd December '11, 03:43 AM
RvP is clearly player of the year lol at Nani getting it. These polls are never accurate cos teams like United have thousands of sad fans that watch for these polls all the time and vote multiple times. Any poll like this a United player will win. It's just a popularity contest, no thought goes into the votes.

.

Matt91
23rd December '11, 04:11 AM
lol liverpool fans have this pathetic attitude that everyone is against them and they're the victims of a huge conspiracy against them, it's pathetic & embarrassing tbh

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 04:27 AM
Liverpool players have a history of winning these polls.

When United players win such polls they usually have an argument in their favour, although in this case RVP obviously is the clear winner and that's the general consensus on ManYoo forums (see the post where I said Nani had a mediocre final 6 months of last season). The fact that Nani has come back from a 65% deficit to be ahead this poll is simply because our fans saw Suarez, undeservedly, winning it, so we thought we'd fuck with them and vote for Nani. The poll was actually meant to closed at midnight, and Nani overtook Suarez after that deadline since the poll didn't close. Were RVP rightfully ahead in the poll, I doubt you'd see Nani top right now.

Giggs has finally overtaken Gerrard in the best Premier League player ever poll (again, after the poll had meant to end). I'm undecided as to whether for Giggs or Henry in that poll since I believe that Henry's best + his longevity puts him ahead of Ronaldo who only did it for 3 seasons. Giggs obviously has been playing Premier League football for 10 more years than Henry did, so he's got that in his favour.

Gerrard though? Come on.


lol liverpool fans have this pathetic attitude that everyone is against them and they're the victims of a huge conspiracy against them, it's pathetic & embarrassing tbh

.

http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=284297.msg9648740#msg9648740


Im fuming here,think i'm going to write a letter to my MP.

Hij is one of those lot. Jesus Christ.

Matt91
23rd December '11, 04:31 AM
21 pages? :lol:

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 04:34 AM
As I said, they love these online polls.

Hutch
23rd December '11, 04:38 AM
http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=284297.msg9648740#msg9648740

:laugh::laugh: they mad.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 05:05 AM
I think every set of fans can be perceived to be cuntish by their rivals, but there really is nothing like Liverpool fans when it comes to a victim complex.

Fail in your attempt at rigging an online poll in your favour? Write letter to MP!

BIGLEE
23rd December '11, 08:35 AM
Nani>>

M.O.G.
23rd December '11, 10:14 AM
lol liverpool fans have this pathetic attitude that everyone is against them and they're the victims of a huge conspiracy against them, it's pathetic & embarrassing tbh

Yet threads like these are made

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 10:39 AM
What's wrong with this thread?

****Liverpool fans are now trying to complain to Ofcom****

MyLord
23rd December '11, 11:14 AM
I think every set of fans can be perceived to be cuntish by their rivals, but there really is nothing like Liverpool fans when it comes to a victim complex.

Fail in your attempt at rigging an online poll in your favour? Write letter to MP!

LOL@ a man u fan on a rival forum lulz

Seems there was some dodgy dealings going on and how did nani get more votes than suarez right before the poll closed?

hmmmmmm

RVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suarez, Nani, man u

Jstar
23rd December '11, 11:20 AM
****Liverpool fans are now trying to complain to Ofcom****


Looooooool

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/2/25d7ca41-7310-4deb-96cc-abae55a126fc.jpg

Liverpool fans trying to get their players the best silverware they can because they wont be seeing their club lift any trophies for a while lulu :laugh:

MyLord
23rd December '11, 11:20 AM
Thanks.

It's also pretty hilarious hearing John Barnes say the ignorance is an excuse and Liverpool fans agreeing with him. Charles Itanje was hounded out of Liverpool for laughing with someone whilst at an Hillsborough memorial. It wasn't an excuse then, was it? Or maybe it was a cultural misunderstanding, oh wait.


:laugh::laugh::laugh:
OMFG are you serious???

Man U fan boy trolling:laugh::laugh::laugh:

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 11:23 AM
LOL@ a man u fan on a rival forum lulz

Seems there was some dodgy dealings going on and how did nani get more votes than suarez right before the poll closed?

hmmmmmm

RVP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Suarez, Nani, man u

It's already discussed in this thread why he got more votes just before the poll closed. There have been threads on United forums for days about that poll, but it only became an issue when we realised Liverpool fans were rigging the poll by voting dozens of times each.

That's stupid enough, but the irony of them inventing a conspiracy theory that Sky have fixed the poll is obviously lost on them.

I visit most teams forums if there's a issue involving my club and theirs. If you would like to elaborate on what you think is funny about that, I'd be delighted to know.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 11:26 AM
Could you try to construct your sentence in an articulate manner and tell me what you have construed to not be serious?

NSF
23rd December '11, 11:29 AM
Lol revzy were you bored? You said no non-liverpool fans are supportive of Suarez/LFC over this matter, I am. No-ones arguing with what was said, what they are arguing against is him being labelled as a racist because of the FA. They've not said anything along the lines of culture differences etc is to blame (which it is btw, also naivety on LS's part) in a statement and instead have just let everyone come to their own conclusion that he is a racist in the media.

And before you say anything about he should know better, if he's been brought up since birth in a culture like that he's not gonna think he's done anything wrong. Especially if he's said it to someone before who understands its a word that goes on in their culture and they've not pulled him up on it.

Also their lawyers will have known which evidence was present at the hearing so if they had more than Evra's word they're not gonna lie and make themselves look dumb if the report does get released.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 11:40 AM
I believe I said that I haven't seen any non-Liverpool fans supporting Liverpool's stance on this issue, not that there aren't any. If I didn't say that, then my apologies, but there's obviously the Uruguay FA as well as other people.

The FA said in their statement that they don't believe Suarez is a racist. How could anyone blame the FA for people thinking Suarez is a racist when that FA, and Evra, said that they don't believe he is. So no, they've not let people come to their own conclusions, have they? Also, you can believe that the FA have dealt with this poorly and be against Liverpool's stance on the issue. So, I take it you were in full agreement with their absurd statement, even though I ripped it to pieces a few posts earlier?

Suarez should know better because he's been living in Holland for 4 years before arriving in England. I know people who've said that there's absolutely no way that he wouldn't know that negro and its derivatives aren't acceptable in this part of the world. Even still, he surely knows the literal definition of the word 'negrito' (little black man)? Gus Poyet backed him on the issue, but he stopped short of saying that he regularly used the term negrito in England, didn't he?

I think we should give the benefit of the doubt to the panel who found Suarez guilty until the full report is publicised. A QC wouldn't put his reputation at stake on the word of Evra alone, I think it's fair to assume. I have no idea why they have publicised the full report, perhaps it has something to do with Liverpool's appeal? I'm pretty sure everyone would love to see the report, not just Liverpool and its fans.

Cazorla
23rd December '11, 11:41 AM
Wait so RVP didn't win :laugh:

List is void then, tbh. Not even being biased, he had a massive year. 34 goals for Arsenal this year, if he scores another 2 before the end of the year he'll equal Shearer's premier league record for goals scored in a calender year.

chris89
23rd December '11, 11:42 AM
I think every set of fans can be perceived to be cuntish by their rivals, but there really is nothing like Liverpool fans when it comes to a victim complex.

Fail in your attempt at rigging an online poll in your favour? Write letter to MP!
:laugh:

MyLord
23rd December '11, 11:47 AM
FA need to release their report so we can put an end to this.

The whole situation is just annoying/getting embarrassing now tbh.

.


If they had categorical evidence release it

.


lol @ how all of this is taking the limelight off the real racist, John Terry.

also lol @ Riko Dan saying on Twitter that Liverpool is a racist club cos they have no black players. What an idiot.

will sign up to twitter tonight:evilgrin:


Not a surprise to see that guy Hij peddling his club's bullshit on here. Fact of the matter is that every non-Liverpool supporter who I've seen air an opinion on LFC's handling of this whole situation thinks their stance on the issue is repugnant.

He's been found guilty of using Evra's skin colour as a reason to abuse him. Not the FA, who Liverpool seem to think are conspiring against them to split up the club (Kenneth Daglish even implied as such), but by an independent panel which includes a QC. Do you, or your club, know what a QC is? If you do, do you think they'd ban Suarez on Evra's word alone? Again, pretty much every non-Liverpool fan I've seen is willing to give a member of the Queen's Counsel the benefit of the doubt that he wouldn't (and would advise the other two members of the panel that they shouldn't), but Liverpool fans seem to think that's the case. RAWK seems to be in two minds as to Suarez has actually admitted anything though, so perhaps you guys really ought to sort that whole issue out before commenting on the wider case. I would sign up to RAWK and tell them as much, but of course registrations are currently disabled.


Think you should read a few of Hij previous posts. He has mentioned KK at the hearing of the case and waiting for the FA to release the report to make everything clear.

Like you said, ''non liverpool supporters'' seem to have 100% faith in the QC even tho those supporters do not know what evidence was used in the case. So who's to say that they(the independent panel) did not build their case or judgement on Suarez based off of Evra's statement.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 11:48 AM
And again, it's not 100% certain that the term was negrito. Negrito, I'm sure is a term of endearment depending on the context. I'm also pretty sure it can be used in a not so nice way:


Using the word negrito to describe U.S. President Barack Obama got a Honduran government official into hot water in 2009.

Then-Foreign Minister Enrique Ortez was forced to resign after he called Obama a "negrito who does not know where (the Honduran capital of) Tegucigalpa is."

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/17/sport/soccer-word-controversy/index.html

I just have a hard time believing that Suarez meant it in a nice way in one of the most heated games of world football and against one of the most tenacious opponents in football.

But yes, Daniel Taylor (http://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian) of the Guardian has been
categorically told it's not 'negrito' - the alleged word is 'negro' which is just a different variation.

M.O.G.
23rd December '11, 11:48 AM
Looooooool

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2011/6/2/25d7ca41-7310-4deb-96cc-abae55a126fc.jpg

Liverpool fans trying to get their players the best silverware they can because they wont be seeing their club lift any trophies for a while lulu :laugh:

We have a chance of winning 2 trophies.


What's wrong with this thread?

****Liverpool fans are now trying to complain to Ofcom****

So as a United fan you didnt make the thread to gloat nah? seen
Tbh I couldnt care less cos imo neither Nani or Suarez have been the best player of 2011...how RVP isnt and wont win is beyond me but dont sugarcoat the b/s.

Cazorla
23rd December '11, 11:51 AM
If that is "Revz" the old poster who Hij banned then i can't take him seriously. Just another biased United fan/United troll.

chris89
23rd December '11, 11:52 AM
Revzy ITT >>>>>>

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 11:55 AM
Think you should read a few of Hij previous posts. He has mentioned KK at the hearing of the case and waiting for the FA to release the report to make everything clear.

Like you said, ''non liverpool supporters'' seem to have 100% faith in the QC even tho those supporters do not know what evidence was used in the case. So who's to say that they(the independent panel) did not build their case or judgement on Suarez based off of Evra's statement.
People are willing to give a QC the benefit of the doubt because of what a QC is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Counsel

He led the independent commission on the Suarez case. There will be more evidence than Evra's statement, that's pretty much guaranteed.

http://www.blackstonechambers.com/people/barristers/paul_goulding_qc.html

M.O.G.
23rd December '11, 11:55 AM
Revzy is chatting nonsense, he's assuming things that may not have happened.
How can you base your opinion on an assumption revzy ? just because in your words 'you have a hard time believing it'.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 11:56 AM
Revzy ITT >>>>>>

Appreciated.


Revzy is chatting nonsense, he's assuming things that may not have happened.
How can you base your opinion on an assumption revzy ? just because in your words 'you have a hard time believing it'.
Because the independent panel, chaired by a QC, have deemed him guilty?

M.O.G.
23rd December '11, 11:58 AM
Appreciated.


Because the independent panel, chaired by a QC, have deemed him guilty?

So? OJ Simspon got found not guilty but he couldnt be more guilty if he did it infront of the so called 'QC'.

What it all boils down to is Suarez' word against Evras, no-one will know except those 2 what really got said so lets not act like we can all lip read and judge body language.

lotf
23rd December '11, 12:03 PM
liverpool fans <<<

chris89
23rd December '11, 12:07 PM
The writing letter to mp thing is hilarious tbh :laugh:

MyLord
23rd December '11, 12:07 PM
And again, it's not 100% certain that the term was negrito. Negrito, I'm sure is a term of endearment depending on the context. I'm also pretty sure it can be used in a not so nice way:



http://edition.cnn.com/2011/11/17/sport/soccer-word-controversy/index.html

I just have a hard time believing that Suarez meant it in a nice way in one of the most heated games of world football and against one of the most tenacious opponents in football.

But yes, Daniel Taylor (http://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian) of the Guardian has been .

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

So, Liverpool FC fans are criticized for backing Suarez and accusing the independent panel and FA of foul play over the case(not in those words) yet,


it's not 100% certain that the term was negrito


I just have a hard time believing that Suarez meant it in a nice way in one of the most heated games of world football and against one of the most tenacious opponents in football.

But yes, Daniel Taylor (http://twitter.com/#!/DTguardian) of the Guardian has been .


People are willing to give a QC the benefit of the doubt because of what a QC is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen%27s_Counsel

He led the independent commission on the Suarez case. There will be more evidence than Evra's statement, that's pretty much guaranteed.

http://www.blackstonechambers.com/people/barristers/paul_goulding_qc.html

I hope so.


So? OJ Simspon got found not guilty but he couldnt be more guilty if he did it infront of the so called 'QC'.

What it all boils down to is Suarez' word against Evras, no-one will know except those 2 what really got said so lets not act like we can all lip read and judge body language.

.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 12:08 PM
So? OJ Simspon got found not guilty but he couldnt be more guilty if he did it infront of the so called 'QC'.

What it all boils down to is Suarez' word against Evras, no-one will know except those 2 what really got said so lets not act like we can all lip read and judge body language.

I would say let's all wait for the panel to release their report on it, and I'm perfectly happy to do that, but the fact is that LFC haven't by releasing a statement criticising their decision and admitting in the statement that they haven't read the report.

The fact as it stands is that Suarez has been found guilty. If and when the report is released, it turns out that they were only going off Evra's word, Paul Goulding QC will be disgraced and likely out of a job. That isn't how the law works, so it won't be how he will work.

Jack 1017
23rd December '11, 12:14 PM
Who gives a fuck its only a Sky Sports poll bros lol

MyLord
23rd December '11, 12:16 PM
I would say let's all wait for the panel to release their report on it, and I'm perfectly happy to do that, but the fact is that LFC haven't by releasing a statement criticising their decision and admitting in the statement that they haven't read the report.

The fact as it stands is that Suarez has been found guilty. If and when the report is released, it turns out that they were only going off Evra's word, Paul Goulding QC will be disgraced and likely out of a job. That isn't how the law works, so it won't be how he will work.

You pretty much did the same thing by assuming there is more evidence other than Evra's word yet you or any other football fan have seen the report.

Seems you have a lot of faith in ol' Paul Goulding QC

MyLord
23rd December '11, 12:20 PM
Who gives a fuck its only a Sky Sports poll bros lol

:laugh:

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 12:24 PM
So, Liverpool FC fans are criticized for backing Suarez and accusing the independent panel and FA of foul play over the case(not in those words) yet,
[I][/I

For backing Suarez? It's their prerogative. I personally wouldn't.

For accusing the FA of foul play? I think every set of fans have done that in the past. It's nothing new.

For accusing the independent panel, chaired by a QC, of foul play? I'm not sure what the implications are of accusing a QC of foul play, but whomever has been doing so had better do their research on that before speaking again.

It's not 100% been made clear to the public that the term was negrito. The FA obviously know what the term was, don't they? Daniel Taylor at the Guardian is pretty sure that the term was negro. I've not taken his word for it though, which is why the term negrito is the focus of most of my posts when referring to the term he allegedly used (which I think is fair to assume given Poyet's and the Uruguayan FA's defence of the term). Until Daniel Taylor further clarifies or the FA report is released, my assumption is that he used the word negrito.

Suarez is alleged to have said it 10 times. That was in Evra's report to the FA. Saying 'negrito' once can put be put down to a cultural misunderstanding, but saying it ten times, knowing fully that the literal definition is 'little black man', to a black man, is not a cultural misunderstanding.

Parrr
23rd December '11, 12:24 PM
Hij come through

Jack 1017
23rd December '11, 12:29 PM
Revzy ITT >>>>>>

.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 12:29 PM
You pretty much did the same thing by assuming there is more evidence other than Evra's word yet you or any other football fan have seen the report.

Seems you have a lot of faith in ol' Paul Goulding QC

I would say let's wait for the report, had Liverpool and its fans not been playing the victim card again and just shut up and waited for the report. However:

2nd paragraph of LFC statement:


We will study the detailed reasons of the Commission once they become available,

3rd paragraph of LFC's statement:


We find it extraordinary that Luis can be found guilty on the word of Patrice Evra alone

And of course the assumption is that there's more to this than Evra's word when he's been charged by a QC. I would be first to admit how absurd it is if the full report implies that they went simply off Evra's word.

chris89
23rd December '11, 12:37 PM
not reading anymore lul, waiting for Hij

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 12:44 PM
Liverpool players have a history of winning these polls.

Just saw someone on RAWK say that Meireles won this last year, so googled to check if he really did but I couldn't find anything on the Sky Sports Player of the Year 2010.

Turns out he won the PFA Fans Player of the Year for 2010/2011 :laugh:

EA
23rd December '11, 12:54 PM
Emotionally invested football fans <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Tony Starks said it right in the other Suarez, they're turning him into a political prisoner.


Hij come through

Pandora's box, Open!

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 12:55 PM
Stan Collymore refused to comment on the radio last night about this because he didn't want any more abuse from the fans of his former club.

Who can blame him: https://twitter.com/#!/StanCollymore/favorites

NSF
23rd December '11, 01:00 PM
Why are you putting so much faith in a QC btw? It wouldn't be the first time a poor judgement has been made by one. As for your explanation of Negrito, Uruguayans have already said using negrito would sound stupid in the way he's being accused and wouldn't make sense. Evra should be getting the book thrown it him aswell if Suarez is, he admitted to calling him a south american, like Hij posted out any discrimination whether it be race, colour, nationality etc. is punishable within FA rules. I think this is where a lot of people are pissed off because nothing's been said about Evra's discrimination against him even though he admitted to saying something first. South Americans have completely different ways of discrimination on top of white/black etc. because of their culture, I've read about other athletes winding others up in brazil because of their social class and upbringing and to them that as taken just as bad as calling someone a black or whatever. So it wouldn't come as a surprise if looking down on someone's nationality would be just as offensive.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:07 PM
Because he's an expert in law and he presumably wouldn't want to come to a conclusion that would be unlawful knowing fully well that he'll have to publicise the report. Have you a link to where Evra has admitted anything? South American also isn't a race or a nationality, or a colour. But please would you provide a link to where Evra has admitted saying South American, or any statements from Evra's club, friends, FA or whoever that would imply that he has used the term?

They said something along the lines of 'Negrito would sound stupid if he was saying it when he was angry'. The obvious answer to that would be perhaps he wasn't angry?

GrimmyGrimGrim
23rd December '11, 01:13 PM
in before t shirts at the next game

NSF
23rd December '11, 01:14 PM
Because he's an expert in law and he presumably wouldn't want to come to a conclusion that would be unlawful knowing fully well that he'll have to publicise the report. Have you a link to where Evra has admitted anything? South American also isn't a race or a nationality, or a colour. But please would you provide a link to where Evra has admitted saying South American, or any statements from Evra's club, friends, FA or whoever that would imply that he has used the term?

They said something along the lines of 'Negrito would sound stupid if he was saying it when he was angry'. The obvious answer to that would be perhaps he wasn't angry?No because I'm on my phone, it's in this thread or the other that was locked if you want to have a look through. He used a word that is insulting to S Americans apparently, Seduca or something.

Plenty of judges/QC's have made some dumb judgements in cases and they've stayed in their jobs. It wouldn't be the first time someone's come to the wrong conclusion.

chris89
23rd December '11, 01:14 PM
I don't really understand what other evidence they can have though?

Hope they have got more and he gets banned for longer though lulul

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:15 PM
Also, do you still agree with Liverpool's stance on the issue? You think their argument that he has black friends and family is a valid one, or that Evra has previous when it comes to these sort of allegations, or that they've said that they find it extraordinary that he was found guilty on Evra's word alone despite admitting to having not read the report? Or Kenny's quote from months ago that said whoever is the guilty party should be punished, except as it turned out, if it was Suarez? Or Dalglish's implication that this is all a conspiracy to split the Liverpool squad up? Or that there's not a difference between being a racist and using racist language? Or that releasing a video with him doing charity work with black kids is a good idea?

Which part of Liverpool's stance on this are you supportive of?

EA
23rd December '11, 01:15 PM
Revzy ITT >>>>>>

.

chris89
23rd December '11, 01:17 PM
Just saw another interview with Daglish, his whole "everyone is against us" mannerisms just make me hate him more every time he speaks, cunt of a man, close to Fergie tbh

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:26 PM
No because I'm on my phone, it's in this thread or the other that was locked if you want to have a look through. He used a word that is insulting to S Americans apparently, Seduca or something.


Liverpool/Suarez should file a report to the FA if they want Evra banned.


I don't really understand what other evidence they can have though?


I don't know, but do you think they'd find him guilty based solely on Evra's word, bearing in mind that the have to give a report detailing the reason behind their decision? I'll be the first to say I think it's a joke if that's the case.

M.O.G.
23rd December '11, 01:28 PM
Liverpool/Suarez should file a report to the FA if they want Evra banned.



I don't know, but do you think they'd find him guilty based solely on Evra's word, bearing in mind that the have to give a report detailing the reason behind their decision? I'll be the first to say I think it's a joke if that's the case.

What other evidence could they possibly have?
Other Man U players backing up Evra (their friend and team-mate)? Obviously the ref heard nothing/saw nothing otherwise Suarez would have got a red and the ref would have made a report (which I dont think he has) so really, there can be no evidence and are finding Suarez guilty on Evras word.

I dont condone Suarez, He deserves the 8 game ban for the sheer stupidity of it but it seems very fishy to me.

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:29 PM
:laugh:

I don't think that's too far a stretch when one of them suggested:


A song at the next home game?


http://www.redandwhitekop.com/forum/index.php?topic=284297.msg9648675#msg9648675

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:33 PM
What other evidence could they possibly have?
Other Man U players backing up Evra (their friend and team-mate)? Obviously the ref heard nothing/saw nothing otherwise Suarez would have got a red and the ref would have made a report (which I dont think he has) so really, there can be no evidence and are finding Suarez guilty on Evras word.

I dont condone Suarez, He deserves the 8 game ban for the sheer stupidity of it but it seems very fishy to me.

They're definitely going to release their report, so we'll all see what their reasoning is.

I understand Liverpool fans wanting to know what their reasoning is now, we all want to know. I'm not quite sure why they can't tell us now (perhaps LFC know, otherwise they would have made a point of it in their statement? Wouldn't they need it before they start their appeal?)

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 01:39 PM
http://i420.photobucket.com/albums/pp284/Red_Jamie87/nani.png

Villain_94
23rd December '11, 02:20 PM
:laugh::laugh: people that keep clicking on something thinking 'hopefully it will work this time, no? ok maybe if I try again it will, ok this time...' <<<<<

RvP is clearly player of the year lol at Nani getting it. These polls are never accurate cos teams like United have thousands of sad fans that watch for these polls all the time and vote multiple times. Any poll like this a United player will win. It's just a popularity contest, no thought goes into the votes.


lol liverpool fans have this pathetic attitude that everyone is against them and they're the victims of a huge conspiracy against them, it's pathetic & embarrassing tbh
.

MyLord
23rd December '11, 02:23 PM
^^^ so the poll was supposed to close at 12 but they kept it open. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Sky sports = man u supporters

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 02:23 PM
^^^ so the poll was supposed to close at 12 but they kept it open. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

Sky sports = man u supporters

Victims.

MyLord
23rd December '11, 02:25 PM
revzy

can you get the poll results for the other nominated players so we can see if any other player was voted for at that time?


Victims.

:dead:

I-LOVE-LIVERPOOL
23rd December '11, 02:32 PM
The poll results are a few posts above with a lovely picture of Nani.

The show announcing the winner is in Christmas day. Should make a nice change from Home Alone and Die Hard.

MyLord
23rd December '11, 04:31 PM
The poll results are a few posts above with a lovely picture of Nani.

The show announcing the winner is in Christmas day. Should make a nice change from Home Alone and Die Hard.

The whole thing is dodgy tbh and RVP has bn robbed because of Scum sports and scum united but who cares.


































It's CHRISTMAS!!!

Brisboy84
23rd December '11, 04:34 PM
Liverpool fans shouldn't be bothered about some Sky Sports poll. They lost credibility a long time ago. They're like The Sun sports section but on TV.

They should only take their own club polls seriously.

MyLord
23rd December '11, 04:37 PM
Liverpool fans shouldn't be bothered about some Sky Sports poll. They lost credibility a long time ago. They're like The Sun sports section but on TV.

They should only take their own club polls seriously.

please explain

Brisboy84
23rd December '11, 04:43 PM
please explain

Just their over the top coverage sometimes, their way of reporting, pathetic way they present stats - like Player A has 5 goals in 10 games, but Player B has 10 goals in 15 games, so Player B is better.

MyLord
23rd December '11, 04:51 PM
Stan Collymore refused to comment on the radio last night about this because he didn't want any more abuse from the fans of his former club.

Who can blame him: https://twitter.com/#!/StanCollymore/favorites

Man U fans trolling?


Just saw another interview with Daglish, his whole "everyone is against us" mannerisms just make me hate him more every time he speaks, cunt of a man, close to Fergie tbh

Did he actually say that?

MyLord
23rd December '11, 04:58 PM
Just their over the top coverage sometimes, their way of reporting, pathetic way they present stats - like Player A has 5 goals in 10 games, but Player B has 10 goals in 15 games, so Player B is better.

you've lost me bro.

we lost credibility because of our views on statistics?

GrimmyGrimGrim
23rd December '11, 05:01 PM
cant even rig a poll properly

pathetic thing to do anyway

Brisboy84
23rd December '11, 05:01 PM
you've lost me bro.

we lost credibility because of our views on statistics?

I wasn't talking about Liverpool fans losing credibility lol. I was talking about Sky Sports.

chris89
23rd December '11, 05:03 PM
Did he actually say that?

With his eyes he did MyLord, with his eyes

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:07 PM
Lulz

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:09 PM
Several guys full of irony itt

Self righteous gobshites. Btw I didn't vote but I read the thread just now

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:10 PM
Thanks.

It's also pretty hilarious hearing John Barnes say the ignorance is an excuse and Liverpool fans agreeing with him. Charles Itanje was hounded out of Liverpool for laughing with someone whilst at an Hillsborough memorial. It wasn't an excuse then, was it? Or maybe it was a cultural misunderstanding, oh wait.

Watch this hilarious Dave Chappelle stand up where he discusses ignorance to the law.

JJ3dk6KAvQM

"I'm sorry officer, I didn't know I couldn't do that" :laugh:

Your a gobshite. Itandje was laughing during the memorial which he 100% would have been explained about beforehand.

Bitch please, educate yourself .

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:12 PM
They're definitely going to release their report, so we'll all see what their reasoning is.

I understand Liverpool fans wanting to know what their reasoning is now, we all want to know. I'm not quite sure why they can't tell us now (perhaps LFC know, otherwise they would have made a point of it in their statement? Wouldn't they need it before they start their appeal?)

I agree with you here.

For the sake of argument can ANYONE please post up the exact exchange?

No? Thought not. We are all (including me) commenting on a load of shit we know nothing about

Gordon Taylor is the biggest hypocritical idiot cunt ever. I'll post up some shit when I get home

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:13 PM
Just saw another interview with Daglish, his whole "everyone is against us" mannerisms just make me hate him more every time he speaks, cunt of a man, close to Fergie tbh

Well in this instance he is right you pleborian.

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:16 PM
I believe I said that I haven't seen any non-Liverpool fans supporting Liverpool's stance on this issue, not that there aren't any. If I didn't say that, then my apologies, but there's obviously the Uruguay FA as well as other people.

The irony is, on reflection that not taking into account cultural issues is infact leaning on the racist side seeing as the FA have managed to offend pretty much an entire country.

Jack 1017
23rd December '11, 05:18 PM
If Rooney scored as many goals as van Persie this year all these pundits would be screaming "Rooney for world player of the year"

chris89
23rd December '11, 05:18 PM
http://www.skysports.com/tv_show/story/0,20144,12384_7393506_12384,00.html

lol looks like their plan worked, no need to write a letter to your mp about this one Hij

Hij
23rd December '11, 05:20 PM
Van Persie should have won