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View Full Version : Should English sides adopt competitive reserve sides like Spain, Germany ect.



Nigel
20th December '11, 10:59 PM
IN countries such as Spain and Germany, a clubs reserve side partakes in the competitive league tier as their 1st team would. For example, Real Madrid Castilla, Bayern Munich B and Barca B. This allows the sides to test their youngsters, 2nd string players ect. in a competitive environment and get them playing regular football.

Should this be used in the English league system? As the youth system over here may not be seen to be the best at brining youngsters through at a level similar to the Premier League.

What alternatives would you suggest? The main for me would be each side has a fixed feeder club, a team which they can send their players too, in lower leagues, with the intention of them being played 1st team football regularly. Maybe a thing where each team must start a couple of on loan U21's?

Lower league fans, how do you see this? As I find lower league sides, particularly Championship, are less likely now to be taking on youngsters and playing them regularly, instead getting players whom are 2nd choice for their side and using them instead, even though they may be 28 years old and not with much future.

Matt91
20th December '11, 11:15 PM
nah it seems a bit bullshit tbh i know why ur saying it but from a lower league fans POV its a shit idea maybe an international sorta league comp similar to the NextGen thing they've got going on

BIGDON
20th December '11, 11:18 PM
its a real shame because we have a great academy system but so many still cant get a game even though were in the Championship and just get loaned out but i understand throwing youth team players in at the deep end will probably result in a few bad results and in our case could cost us promotion which wont be good in the long run for the club and in the Championship its even harder when u can only name 5 subs

the B side would be a great idea IMO

Matt91
20th December '11, 11:22 PM
would u say they have to go from the bottom league and work up like Wimbledon & FC United?

Maybe increase the nPower league places as well then, i don't think it'll happen anytime soon and i swear italy don't have this model? they dont even have reserve leagues do they?

Pirate
21st December '11, 12:07 AM
its a great idea from the perspective of the top clubs, but its shit for small clubs/lower league clubs - less loaned players available, more competition for promotions etc with clubs with far better resources, the risk of dubious B sides (eg Cleverley Anderson Valencia etc playing in League 1 to ease them back from injury)

don't see any benefit for lower league sides if im honest

El Asesino
21st December '11, 12:08 AM
hate the idea tbh

EA
21st December '11, 03:35 AM
its a great idea from the perspective of the top clubs, but its shit for small clubs/lower league clubs - less loaned players available, more competition for promotions etc with clubs with far better resources, the risk of dubious B sides (eg Cleverley Anderson Valencia etc playing in League 1 to ease them back from injury)

don't see any benefit for lower league sides if im honest

This is why contraction is needed tbh. There's too many leagues over here IMO. Reducing the amount of teams would increase the quality of the players being produced because teams won't be able to headhunt players as easily so they would have to focus more on development.

MyLord
21st December '11, 09:44 AM
Good idea imo. One thing a lot of the younger players lack other than playing time is confidence. This system could be a huge boost for clubs and international sides.

Nigel
21st December '11, 10:19 AM
would u say they have to go from the bottom league and work up like Wimbledon & FC United?

Maybe increase the nPower league places as well then, i don't think it'll happen anytime soon and i swear italy don't have this model? they dont even have reserve leagues do they?

Italy has the dual ownership system which is similar, as it allows two teams to own the players, tricky to explain the full workings though. Also, there is a much more age related reserve system iirc it's seething like u23's.

Mr Nasri
21st December '11, 10:29 AM
no.

quality
21st December '11, 11:14 AM
I just wish Premier League teams would stop stock piling players. Every team does it - John Bostock would have been better just staying at Palace and playing with Zaha, Clyne, Williams etc. Absolute waste of potential.

MyLord
21st December '11, 01:20 PM
I just wish Premier League teams would stop stock piling players. Every team does it - John Bostock would have been better just staying at Palace and playing with Zaha, Clyne, Williams etc. Absolute waste of potential.

.

BIGLEE
21st December '11, 02:10 PM
How do u qualify for nextgen

Samir_NasG
21st December '11, 05:53 PM
No think it's a bag of shit and would undo years and years of smaller club history.

Nigel
22nd December '11, 12:27 PM
I just wish Premier League teams would stop stock piling players. Every team does it - John Bostock would have been better just staying at Palace and playing with Zaha, Clyne, Williams etc. Absolute waste of potential.

Palace have always had that problem, Julian Grey, routledge, Ben Watson, Tom soares M, Moses and Bostock all could have been much better players if they were given the chance to prosper at Palace or a similar level side. But the big sides don't want that. They want them rotting in their reserves

Matt91
22nd December '11, 01:46 PM
Routledge prob woulda been a starter for us but got injured very early on and that's when Lennon burst onto the scene, Moses tbf is proving himself in a poor side and wouldn't be suprised if he moved this season and Bostock...fuck knows he's been doing alright for nextgen thing I think but heard he's got a big attitude problem

Nigel
21st January '12, 01:04 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/20/everton-david-moyes-reserve-conference?newsfeed=true
www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/19/villas-boas-premier-league-b-championship

Davo Moyes and Andrea V-Bo have both backed my idea. #Geezers

GORDON
21st January '12, 01:20 AM
Yes lets have a fuck load of B teams finishing top of the Championship every season so no new teams will ever go into the Premiership. How anyone can think things like this and EPPP are good for football in this country are incredibly stupid.

kilik
21st January '12, 01:34 AM
B teams can't go up to premier leagues... Its a good idea but I don't think it could work in england. We got too much leagues and clubs and they would have to completely revamp the lower leagues.

GORDON
21st January '12, 01:56 AM
and it's managers of the clubs that want this introduced that have caused the problem in the first place by signing any 16 year old who can do 5 tee ups in a row and sitting him in the reserves for 5 years until he's 19 has fuck all experience and has to play catch up at a smaller club because there was too much competition for places because the team he plays for signed about 5 carbon copies of him at the same fucking time


fuck off moyes you jock cunt
villas boas you spent 50 mil on one striker and you're in a 4th place battle you cocksucker

fuck everyone

Josh
21st January '12, 03:37 AM
horrendous, horrendous idea. i cant even begin to explain how bad it is for the lower league teams. shite shite shite

why the fuck should some lower league team get denied promotion cos arsenal B team full of foreigners all on 5 grand a week wins the league instead?

Sosa
21st January '12, 03:38 AM
dont we have reserves and under18s leagues? these same players are playing against each other anyway week in week out

Hij
21st January '12, 03:59 AM
Yeah but its shit football, we need our youngers playing proper


horrendous, horrendous idea. i cant even begin to explain how bad it is for the lower league teams. shite shite shite

why the fuck should some lower league team get denied promotion cos arsenal B team full of foreigners all on 5 grand a week wins the league instead?
The arsenal b team would never get promoted via this system

Hutch
21st January '12, 04:08 AM
villas boas you spent 50 mil on one striker and you're in a 4th place battle you cocksucker

I can confirm AvB didn't buy or even ask for Torres to be signed, he wasn't our manager in January 2011.

GORDON
21st January '12, 04:11 AM
Arsenal B would have players like Mannone, Eastmond, Miquel, Frimpong, Bartley etc, who have all played a fair few games in the top 2 divisions, and that's just off the top of my head, the reserves of the 6 major clubs now would all cope in The Championship imo and if this were to happen then obviously young players would obviously be more willing to join because they would have a better chance of breaking through because of the better level of competition they'd be up against from an early age.

This would fucking destroy the lower leagues, and all the top Championship teams would suffer big attendance falls, and for what? to keep a few big sides happy? Because really how likely is this to benefit young English players? It won't help them at all, because these B teams will still be full of foreigners, i'm sorry but anyone who thinks this is close to a good idea is a cunt.


EDIT: Also what's wrong with the current loan system for getting players competitive football? Anyone who's ready for it could find a dozen clubs willing to play them, and that way you don't destroy English football at the same time, quite a fair deal imo.

I can confirm AvB didn't buy or even ask for Torres to be signed, he wasn't our manager in January 2011.

Don't let facts get in the way of a good argument, nah sorry lol my bad, still though fuck him.

Hij
21st January '12, 04:18 AM
It makes me laugh that Benitez suggested this years ago (regardless of whether any of you want it or not), but it's not surprising that a couple years after he suggests something, everyones doing it. Like rotation, I remember Sky Sports banging on about Benitez not changing his team, then when Ferguson did it, they were sucking his dick.

Hold tight our journalists/media guys etc - all of them can suck their mums.

In 6 years when Kenny leaves, bring Benitez home

Benitez is a million times better than everyone thinks he is, and I hope he re-hire him in the future after Kenny's had enough.

kilik
21st January '12, 04:22 AM
horrendous, horrendous idea. i cant even begin to explain how bad it is for the lower league teams. shite shite shite

why the fuck should some lower league team get denied promotion cos arsenal B team full of foreigners all on 5 grand a week wins the league instead?

The b teams in germany and spain can't be promoted. They always stay at least one league below

GORDON
21st January '12, 04:26 AM
But they'd just finish 1st-5th in the championship every season and it would be top 5 B teams followed by the rest, so no team would ever get promoted, and how fucking dumb would it be to promote a team that finishes 7th and 8th?

Josh
21st January '12, 05:09 AM
Yeah but its shit football, we need our youngers playing proper


The arsenal b team would never get promoted via this system

but they would take up a promotion spot surely?

i cant believe people are even beginning to think this is a good idea fdhdtjdmmfgmdgtnhdndt

thank fuck that the other football forum i go on everyone is in agreement that its a horrendous idea

^ horrible grammar but ive been working tonight and still have 3 hours left you get my drift

Hij
21st January '12, 05:16 AM
Nah they do it in Spain. The B team can never get promoted.

Benitez wanted it in England, it's one of the things I wasn't sure if I agreed with when it came to Rafa, it would fuck up the Championship, but what I do agree with, is that the English Reserve league is shit, they hardly play, and they have to do crap games. That's why theres a new tourny recently because players have to play shit games.

In Spain, they put the players in the Barcelona B team, and they play in the Division 1 (or Championship) - so they get proper experience without loaning them out.

While I think Benitez' idea is good, it would never get accepted and who brought it up again?

Josh
21st January '12, 05:19 AM
Well a couple of things to consider would be:

- What league would these teams start in (and which teams would be unfairly kicked out of the league)
- Say Arsenal, Liverpool, United, Chelsea and City enter a team each. What happens if they take up the top five spots in the league? Do the sixth, seventh and eighth teams get promoted?

GORDON
21st January '12, 05:30 AM
The reserves league/format definitely needs a revamp, but doing so at the expense of Football league teams isn't the way to go.

If this went through I think up to 10 teams would be out of business within 2 years, it's just not realistic.

Hutch
21st January '12, 05:34 AM
It is a terrible idea imo, it would ruin the lower leagues and put a few smaller clubs out of business eventually just for the big clubs to gain a bit of experience for their youth players. That can be done by sending their players on loan anyway.

Pretty sure UEFA have tried to introduce a youth champions league for the best teams in Europe but they scrapped it around August 2011.. I think they're working on something very similar tho, it sounds a much better idea because it doesn't mess with existing leagues and the teams will be representing their clubs against the best in Europe, obviously that = competitive football and it would be a great trophy to win.

Hij
21st January '12, 05:43 AM
Well a couple of things to consider would be:

- What league would these teams start in (and which teams would be unfairly kicked out of the league)
- Say Arsenal, Liverpool, United, Chelsea and City enter a team each. What happens if they take up the top five spots in the league? Do the sixth, seventh and eighth teams get promoted?

I don't think it will happen mate


It is a terrible idea imo, it would ruin the lower leagues and put a few smaller clubs out of business eventually just for the big clubs to gain a bit of experience for their youth players. That can be done by sending their players on loan anyway.

Pretty sure UEFA have tried to introduce a youth champions league for the best teams in Europe but they scrapped it around August 2011.. I think they're working on something very similar tho, it sounds a much better idea because it doesn't mess with existing leagues and the teams will be representing their clubs against the best in Europe, obviously that = competitive football and it would be a great trophy to win.

Like I said, I rarely disagreed with Benitez, but while he wanted our young players to play against proper opposition, I'd rather the best players in England (from whatever country) put a weeks wages towards keeping Darlington afloat

GORDON
21st January '12, 06:04 AM
Literally just come off the Darlington forum before you said that, always sad to see a team go out of business, even if all the players in the Premiership put just 10% of their weeks wages towards it then Darlo would be able to see out the season, or start a phoenix club because with that stadium it would only be a while until they're right back in the shit again, fuck even if 1 club decided to do it they'd be able to start again properly, real shame tbh.

Did notice the other day David Stockdale from Fulham gave a part of his wages towards paying Darlo's players who hadn't been payed in weeks, real nice gesture. it's quite easy to forget the players in this situation too, imagine not being paid for a month and not knowing how you're gonna keep a roof over your head, everything about this sityation is horrible tbh.

Josh
21st January '12, 06:10 AM
I think the only option for Darlo in the end will be packing their bags and reforming as a new club.. that stadium is a noose around their necks even if they get saved in the short term.

GORDON
21st January '12, 06:15 AM
You not going to Colchester tomorrow mate?

I'm going to watch my uncle play before our match tomorrow so i've gotta be up about 8 lol, gonna be a long day.

Josh
21st January '12, 06:18 AM
nope, working my last shift at 7pm tomorrow through till 7am so i wouldn't be back from colchester in time :sad:

blessing in disguise really

GORDON
21st January '12, 06:21 AM
Ha, luckily i've only been supporting Oxford for such a short time i've never seen us in a patch when i've been glad to not have to go.

My worst time supporting Oxford was December in our promotion year, when we only won 1 out of 4 games lol.

Glory supporting>>>>>>

The Don
21st January '12, 08:08 AM
can the fa and clubs not just take the reserve league more seriously?

Hij
21st January '12, 08:39 AM
Fuck that shit. Tevez could do the club proud in about 10 minutes.

Pardew is willing to give them players from his reserves ffs

wud
21st January '12, 01:11 PM
Off-topic but Darlingtons fans could've easily saved the club if they'd turned up to every match in the volume they did for their final game.

On-topic: this is a fucking stupid idea, sending players out on loan works well. Just restructure the reserve leagues so more people go and see them play, sell tickets cheap etc

M.O.G.
21st January '12, 02:21 PM
Apparently David Moyes tried to register an Everton B team, then clocked an Everton B team would be an Everton A team

Zoffie
21st January '12, 04:07 PM
I approve this idea.

Nigel
21st January '12, 04:49 PM
Gael Kakuta and Patrick Van Aanholt or whatever it is were at Wigan and Bolton. They played 3 games each for sides who were out of form and facing relegation, surely that fresh blood should have been used?

As mentioned earlier ITT, i reckon all premiership sides should have 'feeder' clubs with whom they send a set amount of homegrown players to, also premier league teams should be forced to have a certain number of homegrown players in their MATCH DAY squad and even starting team. Plus maybe 2/3 U21 UK players

Pirate
21st January '12, 05:52 PM
Think about Wilshere and Sturridge both going on loan to Bolton though - that kind of move is surely better than destroying the lower leagues

Hij
21st January '12, 05:55 PM
Apparently David Moyes tried to register an Everton B team, then clocked an Everton B team would be an Everton A team

Hahaha will rep when on the pc

If Everton were playing in the field outside I would shut the curtains hahsha

Josh
21st January '12, 06:02 PM
I approve this idea.

cunt

doesn't surprise me, you couldn't give a shit about lower league football, you just wank over the latest 8 year old to come out of brazil and make shit predictions like 'neymar is going to chelsea 100%' get the fuck out of here

thank fuck this idea will never happen and fuck everyone who thinks this is a good idea.

fuckin pig headed sky boys make me sick

Josh
21st January '12, 06:14 PM
Off-topic but Darlingtons fans could've easily saved the club if they'd turned up to every match in the volume they did for their final game.

yeah but that was never really gonna happen, people would naturally object to paying 15+ to watch poor football in a massive stadium

Matt91
21st January '12, 06:15 PM
Like I said on page 1 it won't work over here shit idea for lower league clubs

Can confirm Spurs are bossing Next Gen

Zoffie
21st January '12, 08:06 PM
cunt

doesn't surprise me, you couldn't give a shit about lower league football, you just wank over the latest 8 year old to come out of brazil and make shit predictions like 'neymar is going to chelsea 100%' get the fuck out of here

thank fuck this idea will never happen and fuck everyone who thinks this is a good idea.

fuckin pig headed sky boys make me sick

Thanks. Devils in the detail & I wouldn't want it to harm lower league clubs.

Hij
21st January '12, 09:13 PM
Devils in the detail? Fuck off son

Josh
21st January '12, 09:28 PM
i dont even know what that means