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Julio Cesar
3rd December '11, 07:07 PM
What are peoples opinions on deliberately taking someone out in order to stop them attacking? I make this thread because today someone got in behind our midfield on the counter, Faurlin (very good defensively but not a dirty player) didn't want to tackle him from behind in the fear of picking up a card and/or injuring him and guess what? They scored from it. I took the side that he should have kicked the cunt 10 feet in the air and suffered the consequences, however he decided to play to the rules and we got punished for it. So, do you think that 'taking one for the team' is tactical or is it a form of cheating?

NO HOMO

MoneyMan
3rd December '11, 07:10 PM
I'm just gonna say n/h for you mate.

And I agree with it, you don't have to be malicious when you do it, can just push them over or something it's not necessary to kick them or do anything to injure the player most of the time.
It's tactical cheating I would say.

Basically a defender's equivalent of diving for a peno. The rules are there to be bent to your advantage, that's how teams win trophies - i.e. Fergie's "7 minutes isn't enough injury time ye cunts!"

NSF
3rd December '11, 07:12 PM
What happens if someone decides to take one for the team n/h but breaks the guys leg by accident or causes an injury? The player could get a fine and ban then if people didn't see it as accidental. Im not sure about which side I'm on tbh, just depends on the situation I suppose.

Julio Cesar
3rd December '11, 07:12 PM
I'm just gonna say n/h for you mate.
Didn't even realise lol. I'm mad about our result :dead:

Samir_NasG
3rd December '11, 07:14 PM
Cards exist in football for foul play. Take one for the team ffs.

Julio Cesar
3rd December '11, 07:15 PM
What happens if someone decides to take one for the team n/h but breaks the guys leg by accident or causes an injury? The player could get a fine and ban then if people didn't see it as accidental. Im not sure about which side I'm on tbh, just depends on the situation I suppose.
Thats the point I'm trying to get at, I'm not sure whether its worth taking someone out to get a result. I personally think that today he should have hit him as soon as he got the ball (probably because it's my team and we gave another 2 fucking points away) but if he had caused an injury it could have tarnished his reputation and harmed him mentally.

Scrappy123
3rd December '11, 07:16 PM
Pull their shirt back. Booking...job done.

adidasgrandad
3rd December '11, 07:16 PM
dick head move. especially when its the last man. if you cant catch him then tough shit your players should have been better placed in the first place. plus if he gets sent off, depending on the circumstances, you're ultimately worse off with ten men really.

still pissess me off to this day when i was one on one with the keeper in the regional school semi final, we were 1 nil down, few minutes to go and i got hacked down by the last defender and hes nowhere near the ball and because he starts rolling around on the ground in (fake) agony he gets the freekick his way loool

Tony Starks
3rd December '11, 07:18 PM
Good thread.

I personally dont agree with it and only certain players do it. It breeds a negative mentality in that player over time as well as they believe when a talented attacker breaks free of them they must take him down to prevent a 'certain' goal even though hes only in the centre of the park. A better player might focus on getting back properly to make the tackle or pressurising the attacker, I'd never agree with panicking and making deliberate fouls.

If its last man and late in the game thats a different scenario though.

Hutch
3rd December '11, 07:20 PM
Take one for the team tbh as long as it's not gonna be a 2nd yellow card or a straight red then do it, it's clever play and will help you win the match. I done it quite a few times when I used to play for a team every week, 5 fines for a booking <<<< lulul.

I saw Neil Warnock going mad at Faurlin was it because of that or for something else?

Julio Cesar
3rd December '11, 07:23 PM
In this scenario it was on the half way line and their was numerous defenders back although they had 2 forwards available so none of them were closing him down. Faurlin couldn't have pulled his shirt Scrappy123 as he wasn't close enough, although if he tried he probably could have wrapped his leg around him or lunged and put in a big tackle, meaning that he could have put the opponents wellbeing at stake, this was around the 70 minute mark iirc. I wanted him to kick him because the most important thing was 3 points, however he decided not to and they scored from it.


Take one for the team tbh as long as it's not gonna be a 2nd yellow card or a straight red then do it, it's clever play and will help you win the match. I done it quite a few times when I used to play for a team every week, 5 fines for a booking <<<< lulul.

I saw Neil Warnock going mad at Faurlin was it because of that or for something else?
Do you remember when you saw warnock go mad at him? If it was around the 70 minute mark then that was it. He was absolutely brilliant again today, best player on the pitch by a mile. If he was more experienced we probably wouldn't have conceded that goal, although it wasn't his fault as someone else gave it away (may have been barton mistiming a tackle, cant really remember :laugh:)

Hutch
3rd December '11, 07:25 PM
Do you remember when you saw warnock go mad at him? If it was around the 70 minute mark then that was it. He was absolutely brilliant again today, best player on the pitch by a mile. If he was more experienced we probably wouldn't have conceded that goal, although it wasn't his fault as someone else gave it away (may have been barton mistiming a tackle, cant really remember :laugh:)

It was after the final whistle, watch MOTD and they will probably show it he was going mental :laugh:

Julio Cesar
3rd December '11, 07:26 PM
It was after the final whistle, watch MOTD and they will probably show it he was going mental :laugh:

Yeah probably, he's an old fashion manager so it wouldn't surprise me if he wanted him to kick him up in the air and take the card.

Matt91
3rd December '11, 07:30 PM
yeah do it, as long as you're not gonna pick up a red (hi gary cahill) then by all means do it especially if it's the equaliser or winning goal

rly couldn't give a fuck if it breeds a "negative mentality" in that player I wanna win, eventually if you're good enough you'll upgrade. We had Palacios who did exactly what this thread is about break up play and get a yellow near enough most matches now we've got Parker and Sandro (who is similar but better) who don't rly need to make last ditch tackles.

Altho tbf if you're having to make these type of tackles on a regular basis you really should be trying to stop it from happening in the first place

Mr. Jefferies
3rd December '11, 07:31 PM
hypothetical scenario:

(insert your club here) are in the champions league final. there are 30 minutes to go and your club is winning 1-0. barca have used all three substitutes. messi is still on the field. would you have a problem with one of your club's players deliberately injuring him? obviously he'd get sent off, but 10 v 10 with no messi > 11 v 11 with messi?

Sosa
3rd December '11, 07:34 PM
nope would commend him for his actions.

even when i used to play sunday league i always used to go in hard on the oppositions best player n/h

injuring another player an not getting sent off >>>>>

even if you just giv em dead leg so they off the pitch for a few mins its worth it lol

Nigel
3rd December '11, 07:51 PM
I don't agree with it. It's a tricky one to call what happens though, as in rugby if you stop a try being scored by breaking a law of the game and it's a certain try scoring chance the ref can give a penalty try (a try, just with no scorer). This is something that I believe if happens in football, I.e Suarez in the world cup vs Ghana a goal should be given. Tacklings a bit different though as there is often also the goalie to beat.

Samir_NasG
3rd December '11, 07:52 PM
hypothetical scenario:

(insert your club here) are in the champions league final. there are 30 minutes to go and your club is winning 1-0. barca have used all three substitutes. messi is still on the field. would you have a problem with one of your club's players deliberately injuring him? obviously he'd get sent off, but 10 v 10 with no messi > 11 v 11 with messi?

YES. I'd be disappointed if we had to resort to that to win a game.

Tony Starks
3rd December '11, 07:55 PM
hypothetical scenario:

(insert your club here) are in the champions league final. there are 30 minutes to go and your club is winning 1-0. barca have used all three substitutes. messi is still on the field. would you have a problem with one of your club's players deliberately injuring him? obviously he'd get sent off, but 10 v 10 with no messi > 11 v 11 with messi?

This is what I mean by the 'negative mentality' that comes from this kind of tactic. If your team were 1-0 up and Messi was on the field for 70 mins, why shouldnt said player continue performng to the best of his abilities and shut him out for another 30. When that player then turns his attention to trying to injure Messi hes taken himself out of the game, bear in mind he might fail and just get himself sent off. That player has put his team a man down, while hes off on some shameful injury mission, Messi has his head on the game and is likelier to do more damage.

Mr. Jefferies
3rd December '11, 07:57 PM
This is what I mean by the 'negative mentality' that comes from this kind of tactic. If your team were 1-0 up and Messi was on the field for 70 mins, why shouldnt said player continue performng to the best of his abilities and shut him out for another 30. When that player then turns his attention to trying to injure Messi hes taken himself out of the game, bear in mind he might fail and just get himself sent off. That player has put his team a man down, while hes off on some shameful injury mission, Messi has his head on the game and is likelier to do more damage.

they're all valid points, but if it happened, would you be against or for it if it meant your team winning the cl?

Tony Starks
3rd December '11, 07:59 PM
YES. I'd be disappointed if we had to resort to that to win a game.
If it happens to work and we win theres nothing to feel disappointed about. It's a risk I wouldnt want to take as i've just explained but if you win thats all that matters. You think Uruguayans were ashamed Suarez handballed them into the WC semis? Course not


they're all valid points, but if it happened, would you be against or for it if it meant your team winning the cl?

If it happened then thats cool but if the player came over to me at half time and explained his intentions I'd be against it

Samir_NasG
3rd December '11, 08:08 PM
If it happens to work and we win theres nothing to feel disappointed about. It's a risk I wouldnt want to take as i've just explained but if you win thats all that matters. You think Uruguayans were ashamed Suarez handballed them into the WC semis? Course not




not comparable. Suarez didn't hurt anybody and actually gave Ghana the chance to score from the spot if Gyan had of scored it no one would care. Intentionally hurting a players different.

Tony Starks
3rd December '11, 08:11 PM
not comparable. Suarez didn't hurt anybody and actually gave Ghana the chance to score from the spot if Gyan had of scored it no one would care. Intentionally hurting a players different.
I know, was just relating it to the subject of deliberate cheating and in regards to it, the ends always justifies the means

Samir_NasG
3rd December '11, 08:18 PM
I know, was just relating it to the subject of deliberate cheating and in regards to it, the ends always justifies the means

I can live with deliberate cheating as long as their is retribution.

I LOVE GRIME
3rd December '11, 08:38 PM
do what has to be done to make sure your team gets 3 points thats what i think and as much as i hate carragher and terry them man there will die to stop a player getting thru if they get a yellow they dont care that kinda die hard attitude is essential

Hij
3rd December '11, 10:35 PM
If your not on a yellow. Do it. We should have taken Walcott down with a pulled shirt at Anfield in the Champs League


I know, was just relating it to the subject of deliberate cheating and in regards to it, the ends always justifies the means

That's why yellow cards, red cards, suspensions and penalties exist pal. If the punishments aren't enough of a deterrent then they need to work on that. (Infact to be fair you haven't castigated anyone when I scrolled up I thought you might have).



If its last man and late in the game thats a different scenario though.

To be fair, what your saying is, you'll make your mind up dependant on the situation your team is in then? All players do it, and it isn't always done on purpose. It might be 6 of one and half a dozen of the other and you manage to make a negative contact.

By the by, Cahill should never have seen red and Luiz should have. We had one of our lot through on goal, in yards of space and brought down by a Sunderland lad in the first game - just because its the first game of the season and a "special occasion" shouldn't mean that the law is applied the same as if it its the last game of the season and it counts for a lot more (even though all points count).

Hutch
3rd December '11, 10:39 PM
By the by, Cahill should never have seen red and Luiz should have.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2n6t5wy.gif


Seriously tho I agree lol, we got away with one today

Hij
3rd December '11, 10:40 PM
I don't want to labour it, just that this thread was relevant to it.

El Asesino
3rd December '11, 10:45 PM
it infuriates me when our players DON'T make clever fouls. any good CDM, pro or amateur knows when a foul is neccessary for the good of the team. if you're on a yellow then don't get sent off but if not it's a must imo.

Hij
3rd December '11, 10:49 PM
Lucas got 5 yellows in like the first 7 games or something :laugh:

Alonso also used to do this bare coz he was slow.

chris89
4th December '11, 12:28 AM
Luiz should have had a pen midweek and got a yellow for diving instead :laugh:

Swings and roundabouts lads

Anyway Ramires had this happen to him today, the challenge was horrible tbh it wasn't just a drag he proper went for the legs, should have been sent off imo but only got a yellow, can't remember who it was.

Hutch
4th December '11, 01:59 AM
Luiz should have had a pen midweek and got a yellow for diving instead :laugh:

Swings and roundabouts lads

Anyway Ramires had this happen to him today, the challenge was horrible tbh it wasn't just a drag he proper went for the legs, should have been sent off imo but only got a yellow, can't remember who it was.

I think the challenge you're thinking of was on Sturridge, it was a terrible tackle could have been a leg breaker if he didn't see it coming. Can't remember who tackled him tho it might have been Ryan Taylor, he was mad after the amount of times Sturridge ran past him lulul.

chris89
4th December '11, 11:27 AM
I think the challenge you're thinking of was on Sturridge, it was a terrible tackle could have been a leg breaker if he didn't see it coming. Can't remember who tackled him tho it might have been Ryan Taylor, he was mad after the amount of times Sturridge ran past him lulul.

Fuck sake I was so high up I missed most of the details lol, might as well have watched it on sky sports ffs, was almost certain it was number 7 though which is Ramires

The Messiah
6th December '11, 12:28 AM
Cards exist in football for foul play. Take one for the team ffs.


What happens if someone decides to take one for the team n/h but breaks the guys leg by accident or causes an injury? The player could get a fine and ban then if people didn't see it as accidental. Im not sure about which side I'm on tbh, just depends on the situation I suppose.

You don't need to go flying in. Pull their shirt, trip them up etc.

There are times when this behaviour is needed. I'm all for it.

nortside
6th December '11, 04:35 AM
makes me laugh, attackers bend the rules with a lil dive and are called cheats but when a defender blatently hacks a man it's called taking one for the team when in reality it's a useless defender who too slow to catch a forward resorting to shitty tactics

Pirate
6th December '11, 10:29 AM
This is how I win with games but with 9 men on fifa >>>

DTR
6th December '11, 07:26 PM
Pull the shirt, not go in on a double footed dropkick with studs showing like some do ffs.

Alter E-ghost
7th December '11, 02:27 AM
imo when its a certain goal like gyan i think it should be done like rugby. that shouldnt have been a pen. that was an outfield player stopping the ball go straight into the goal. nothing would have stopped it. CatchACat said the same thing like in rugby, fair enough if a shot is prevented illegally and penalty is given but when that shot has been made and then it is illegally obstructed the goal should be given... imo

mac
7th December '11, 08:50 AM
Now that reps gone, does it really matter?

The Messiah
7th December '11, 02:35 PM
This is how I win with games but with 9 men on fifa >>>

Straight up, If I'm playing someone on FIFA, I'm ahead by a goal and they are 1-on-1 in the 86th minute. I'm taking them out outside the box.

It's unsportsmanlike, I get a ton of abuse from opposition who despise it but at the end of the day, if I win the game, I win. End of.

chris89
7th December '11, 02:55 PM
Straight up, If I'm playing someone on FIFA, I'm ahead by a goal and they are 1-on-1 in the 86th minute. I'm taking them out outside the box.

It's unsportsmanlike, I get a ton of abuse from opposition who despise it but at the end of the day, if I win the game, I win. End of.

My mate does this quite a lot to me cos I'm good at 1-2's, doesn't bother me really I just laugh at the desperation, more than confident in my ability to score from a free-kick/against 10 men anyway.

Pirate
7th December '11, 07:06 PM
Straight up, If I'm playing someone on FIFA, I'm ahead by a goal and they are 1-on-1 in the 86th minute. I'm taking them out outside the box.

It's unsportsmanlike, I get a ton of abuse from opposition who despise it but at the end of the day, if I win the game, I win. End of.

.
People get mad online though :laugh:

chris89
7th December '11, 07:15 PM
I tried to do this yesterday with Mertesacker but he was too slow to even foul the guy :laugh:

quality
7th December '11, 10:23 PM
Let's be honest, in the World Cup Suarez did what needed to be done. If you love your team/country, its what you should do.

Pirate
7th December '11, 10:43 PM
I tried to do this yesterday with Mertesacker but he was too slow to even foul the guy :laugh:

Fifa 12 tackling has made it so hard to actually manage it now :laugh: