Cristiano Ronaldo vs Henry

[Shakeem]

trophies do have something to do with a players ability however they aren't the be all or end all or should be the pure determinant of how you rate a player

tbh everyone rates Fabregas he hasn't won a trophy (he didnt really contribute in wc)

So if he did win a trophy would you rate him higher then you do now?

[Hij]

tbh everyone rates Fabregas he hasn't won a trophy (he didnt really contribute in wc)

Eh??

Arsenal


Winner

• FA Cup: 2004–05

Ok it is a lot less than you would imagine for a player of his ability. Great players are remembered for lifting trophies.

[Josh]

trophies do have something to do with a players ability however they aren't the be all or end all or should be the pure determinant of how you rate a player

Maybe its just me, but when I think of comparing two players to see who is better, the trophies they've won aren't even in my thoughts. I only judge players on their ability and their influence on a game. Being able to drive your team forward is cool and a good attribute to have but that's not the sole reason for winning trophies, there is a whole squad of players who help to do that regardless of how much someone dragged their team up by the bollocks to go on and win a match which is why I don't see them as relevant when comparing players.

Great players are remembered for lifting trophies.

I dunno, I certainly don't. Alan Shearer is a great player and didn't win much compared to players with similar/worse ability levels than him.

[Hij]

Maybe its just me, but when I think of comparing two players to see who is better, the trophies they've won aren't even in my thoughts. I only judge players on their ability and their influence on a game. Being able to drive your team forward is cool and a good attribute to have but that's not the sole reason for winning trophies, there is a whole squad of players who help to do that regardless of how much someone dragged their team up by the bollocks to go on and win a match which is why I don't see them as relevant when comparing players.

Yeah, but if your comparing players, your comparing stuff like goals, assists, and all of that is helped by other players.
I guess we'll discount that Xavi has won fucking everything in the last 2 years and deserves the be world player of the year. Is there anything left for him to win?

Barcelona

• Spanish League (5): 1998–99, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
• Spanish Cup (1): 2008–09
• Spanish Supercup (4): 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010
• UEFA Champions League (2): 2005–06, 2008–09
• UEFA Super Cup (1): 2009
• FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2009

Spain U20

• FIFA U-20 World Cup : 1999

Spain U23

• Olympic Games: 2000 Silver Medal

Spain

• UEFA European Football Championship: 2008
• FIFA World Cup: 2010

[Shakeem]

Eh??

Arsenal


Winner

• FA Cup: 2004–05

Ok it is a lot less than you would imagine for a player of his ability. Great players are remembered for lifting trophies.

I feel embarrased being a Arsenal fan and forgetin that

[Josh]

Yeah, but if your comparing players, your comparing stuff like goals, assists, and all of that is helped by other players.
I guess we'll discount that Xavi has won fucking everything in the last 2 years and deserves the be world player of the year. Is there anything left for him to win?

Barcelona

• Spanish League (5): 1998–99, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
• Spanish Cup (1): 2008–09
• Spanish Supercup (4): 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010
• UEFA Champions League (2): 2005–06, 2008–09
• UEFA Super Cup (1): 2009
• FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2009

Spain U20

• FIFA U-20 World Cup : 1999

Spain U23

• Olympic Games: 2000 Silver Medal

Spain

• UEFA European Football Championship: 2008
• FIFA World Cup: 2010

And if someone hadn't won all that it still wouldn't enter my head, I'd judge him on his ability and from what I've seen alone. Like I say, might just be me. If we're using the trophy argument, basically all of Arsenal's squad is fucking shit.

[The Messiah]

Yeah, but if your comparing players, your comparing stuff like goals, assists, and all of that is helped by other players.
I guess we'll discount that Xavi has won fucking everything in the last 2 years and deserves the be world player of the year. Is there anything left for him to win?

Barcelona

• Spanish League (5): 1998–99, 2004–05, 2005–06, 2008–09, 2009–10
• Spanish Cup (1): 2008–09
• Spanish Supercup (4): 2005, 2006, 2009, 2010
• UEFA Champions League (2): 2005–06, 2008–09
• UEFA Super Cup (1): 2009
• FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2009

Spain U20

• FIFA U-20 World Cup : 1999

Spain U23

• Olympic Games: 2000 Silver Medal

Spain

• UEFA European Football Championship: 2008
• FIFA World Cup: 2010

Would Xavi have won al that if he wasn't in the Barca team and was German? Probably not.

Regardless, we'd still appreciate how good a player he is. Trophies help, but I agree, they say more about the team you are playing in, than your own individual ability.

[Switch]

And if someone hadn't won all that it still wouldn't enter my head, I'd judge him on his ability and from what I've seen alone. Like I say, might just be me. If we're using the trophy argument, basically all of Arsenal's squad is fucking shit.

your not the only one, when comparing players, we should compare abilities not trophies because no one individual has won a team tornament/league/cup.

if we start talking about the trophies they have won, what about the fringe players at united that have won more than henry, fuck talking about trophies when we should be on about the players themselves.