GROUP B: Portugal v Holland (17th June, kick-off 19:45)

**Deagle** · 17th June '12, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by Hutch

That's stupid imo they're just over complicating things.

Goal difference shows consistency, you don't really have a lucky 3-0 win but can easily have a lucky 1-0 win head to head.

For example:
Team A: 3-0 3-0 0-1
Team B: 0-2 1-0 1-0
(final result they played each other)

Am I right that Team B would qualify first on the head to head rule if the results went like that?

Yeah. Team B could have lost 0-6 in the first one and still qualify with that last win lol

**Hutch** · 17th June '12, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Deagle

Yeah. Team B could have lost 0-6 in the first one and still qualify with that last win lol

See that's just bullshit lol.

Goal difference THEN head to head is a much fairer way to decide.

**Deagle** · 17th June '12, 02:27 PM

That seems to be the English way of thinking, Prem uses overall GD but other European leagues use head to head for teams with same points. Although I think it's fairer in the league since they play each other twice.

**The Messiah** · 17th June '12, 03:01 PM

Originally Posted by Hutch

See that's just bullshit lol.

Goal difference THEN head to head is a much fairer way to decide.

Disagree. Head-to-head is fairer. When comparing two teams it's better to see who is better than the other, before comparing abilities against other teams in the league.

**Hutch** · 17th June '12, 03:06 PM

Originally Posted by The Messiah

Disagree. Head-to-head is fairer. When comparing two teams it's better to see who is better than the other, before comparing abilities against other teams in the league.

In the league over a 38 game season I agree. But in the Euro's I think goal difference is a fairer indication (see my earlier post).

**The Messiah** · 17th June '12, 03:14 PM

Originally Posted by Hutch

In the league over a 38 game season I agree. But in the Euro's I think goal difference is a fairer indication (see my earlier post).

Same principe applies. If it's appropriate for a 38 game league why is it not appropriate for six-game league?

**Deagle** · 17th June '12, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by The Messiah

Same principe applies. If it's appropriate for a 38 game league why is it not appropriate for six-game league?

Three

**Hutch** · 17th June '12, 03:19 PM

Originally Posted by The Messiah

Same principe applies. If it's appropriate for a 38 game league why is it not appropriate for six-game league?

3 game league*

Look at my earlier post when I gave an example of what can happen (and what did happen with Greece and Russia). How is it fair that a team can possibly lose 4-0 then win 1-0 and 1-0. While the other team can win 3-0 3-0 then lose 1-0 and go out on head to head.
The team that won two games 3-0 is the more consistent team.

**Deagle** · 17th June '12, 06:10 PM

Netherlands (4-2-3-1): Stekelenburg; Van der Wiel, Vlaar, Mathijsen, Willems; De Jong, Van der Vaart; Van Persie, Sneijder, Robben; Huntelaar

Portugal (4-3-3): Rui Patricio; Joao Pereira, Bruno Alves, Pepe, Coentrao; Veloso, Moutinho, Meireles; Nani, Postiga, Ronaldo

Finally VdV and Huntelaar

**The Messiah** · 17th June '12, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by Deagle

Three

Originally Posted by Hutch

3 game league*

Look at my earlier post when I gave an example of what can happen (and what did happen with Greece and Russia). How is it fair that a team can possibly lose 4-0 then win 1-0 and 1-0. While the other team can win 3-0 3-0 then lose 1-0 and go out on head to head.
The team that won two games 3-0 is the more consistent team.

My bad a three game league.

The point I'm making is if you say it's fine for a 38 and not fine for a 3 game league where is the cut-off as to where it is appropriate? There won't be one that will be universally agreed, therefore you should enforce the rule of all leagues.

@Hutch . I agree that in the scenario you gave the team with the bigger wins appears more 'consistent' but hat is not the case. You get 3 points for a 6-0 win and 3 points for a 1-0 win. Bonus points do not exist. The only reason goal difference matters is as a differentiator in the event two teams are equal. Surely it is fairer to measure two equal teams by their head to head record then by goal difference which does not affect the number of points gained in a win in any way shape or form.

**Grimes** · 17th June '12, 06:23 PM

head to head proves who the better team between two teams imo more than goal difference

goal difference rewards flat track bullies

**Hutch** · 17th June '12, 06:26 PM

Originally Posted by The Messiah

My bad a three game league.

The point I'm making is if you say it's fine for a 38 and not fine for a 3 game league where is the cut-off as to where it is appropriate? There won't be one that will be universally agreed, therefore you should enforce the rule of all leagues.

@Hutch . I agree that in the scenario you gave the team with the bigger wins appears more 'consistent' but hat is not the case. You get 3 points for a 6-0 win and 3 points for a 1-0 win. Bonus points do not exist. The only reason goal difference matters is as a differentiator in the event two teams are equal. Surely it is fairer to measure two equal teams by their head to head record then by goal difference which does not affect the number of points gained in a win in any way shape or form.

But my point is that you can scrape a lucky 1-0 win in a 1 off game. If that is the game that determines who goes through it's not fair imo, especially if the team that loses out has a superior goal difference because they comfortably won their first 2 games.

1 Home and 1 away game in the league is a much better indication. I just don't agree with them having the head to head rule in a 3 match league like this.

when you look at Group A, Russia were better than Greece in 2 games then Greece scraped a win to knock them out head to head.