Is Grime just new Hip Hop? - Scratcha's Rinse FM Show 8-11

[Scratcha/DVA]

Discuss with me LIVE NOW! on www.rinse.fm

msn: rinse.fm@hotmail.com
Text: 07919 655 181
GRIME BREAKFAST 8-11am

[Hij]

Im at work :(

Im gonna try and lock.

bet it don't work

SICK
ITS WORKED

You got yourself a listener every day now lol

[Demos]

locked

[Demos]

its not the MC that defines the genre, its the beat

[Hij]

Is this a different Wiley verse on this, or have I just not woken up properly?

Need the full quality version of this as well

[Hij]

I think the phone number is wrong Scratcha I tried to message it, but it wouldn't work.

But what I was saying is that grime must be its own thing innit coz the UK already has its uk hip hop scene so grime must be something else...

Even the posh girls who like their bands and stuff, label grime different to hip hop...

It may sound like Hip Hop more and more but its roots are its own thing and after all the work people like Wiley have put in, they deserve to be able to stand there and say 'I pioneered this music, and what- its our own thing'

[Hij]

From time we have 1,982 pages on the Grimepedia.co.uk without people like Sway/Akala etc it must be its own thing!

[Demos]

this beat is hip hop man

[Demos]

grime came from garage, from when u listen to tracks like wiley-wot u call it or dizzee rascal-i luv u, u know it aint hip hop. NO ONE can find a hip hop tune that sounds like dem tunes dere

[Hij]

this beat is hip hop man
lol i agree

[Hij]

This is hip hop

[FG]

Fans wanna distinguish grime from hip hop, want people to know we have our own thing going on, so could symbolic in that sense

Grime isn't hip hop, but it draws from hip hop as well as other music, and grime results which is like nothing else

Its a hrad question, there's so many types of 'grime' itself

[Hij]

Fans wanna distinguish grime from hip hop, want people to know we have our own thing going on, so could symbolic in that sense

Grime isn't hip hop, but it draws from hip hop as well as other music, and grime results which is like nothing else

Its a hrad question, there's so many types of 'grime' itself

Lets say America and Hip Hop didn't already exist.

What would you call the music then?

Since words came into play, people have always rhymed over stuff, the beats make grime

[screwface]

grime uses alot of basement elements but i dont hear anyone saying grime is jus our own version of bashment lol

[Hij]

grime uses alot of basement elements but i dont hear anyone saying grime is jus our own version of bashment lol
:D

[FG]

Lets say America and Hip Hop didn't already exist.

What would you call the music then?

Since words came into play, people have always rhymed over stuff, the beats make grime

Hip Hop is just one influence imo

Back in the day there was a big electronic influence, which is still there, but even more so then

[Demos]

this beat is garage

[Hij]

I went deep lol can't be bothered to think about it anymore lol

Like....Grime is kinda like - Electronica/Rap/Hip Hop/Bashment/Garage/Drum and Bass fused into one with generally high tempo/high energy people on the beats which produces a different vibe to other music.

[FG]

Hip Hop is just one influence imo

Back in the day there was a big electronic influence, which is still there, but even more so then

Good discussion, hard though - I'm airing my lecture to stay locked

You can't look at just the beat, its the whole package really

Scircher tune is big - on rwd there was that 'mainstrea money' discussion/fight couple months back

Surprised at how many people thought it was hip hop - to me its totally grime, hard to say why though, just the pace, energy, dunno

[Hij]

this beat is garage
If it was made when Garage was being banged out then it is, but effectively Garage has been killed by some rebore wannabe bassline.

I was saying to someone else though that

Bassline/Dubstep/Garage/Grime are all UK type of music and are all representing.

If a Grime artist wants to do a sweetguy tune on his CD, I would personally prefer some bassline tune than some bait hip hop innit.

[Demos]

this tune is hip hop

[Hij]

this tune is hip hop
Agree.

It blurs the lines a bit.

(Prez T ft JME - Heard What I Said for those discussing this later today)

[Demos]

If it was made when Garage was being banged out then it is, but effectively Garage has been killed by some rebore wannabe bassline.

I was saying to someone else though that

Bassline/Dubstep/Garage/Grime are all UK type of music and are all representing.

If a Grime artist wants to do a sweetguy tune on his CD, I would personally prefer some bassline tune than some bait hip hop innit.

yeah i agree

[Demos]

fuck dictionary definitions, u cant define a genre in one sentence

[Hij]

But.
Scratcha.

What about the UK Hip Hop scene......................

And the Grime scene.

Why are their two scenes if its the same?

[Hij]

I also think theres a different name coz for ages people tried to do Hip Hop and maybe failed or couldn't break it and British rappers don't get accepted by America.

So we made our own thing, and why should we have to name it after Hip Hop which is what we don't do

[Hij]

LOOOOOL
AT
BREAKFAST

u joker

[FG]

Dont think grime is hip hop, but similar

Think it relates to artists listening to hip hop when growing up, as well as jungle and garage, but now youngers are coming through just having listened to grime

You think about the origins of the word 'hip hop', its from like the pattern and 'hippity hop' etc, it was like a conscious artistic movement with graffing etc

Grime lets of steam where man can just vent anger on mic, especially grime back in the day, like Eski

[Hij]

But its the beats that are different tho

[Demos]

its like saying dancehall is hip hop coz they spit on a beat, complete madness

hey!

[Retrofreak]

I went deep lol can't be bothered to think about it anymore lol

Like....Grime is kinda like - Electronica/Rap/Hip Hop/Bashment/Garage/Drum and Bass fused into one with generally high tempo/high energy people on the beats which produces a different vibe to other music.

All of the genre's you've mentioned have been inspired by Hip Hop at some stage so it's just going full circle.

You can start rapping on virtually anything and depending on who's doing it..it can be then classed as Hip Hop.
That's how it was created in the first place, it leeches off of whatever style is around.

Yes Grime immediately came out of Garage ,but go further back and see how Hip Hop influenced Drum and Bass and continued to influence through the duration of these genre's with mans like Timbaland.

Currently i'd say that Grime is the new UK Hip Hop.

[Hij]

LOOOL SCRATCHA
DROP THE ACTUAL TUNE OF THAT I Beg you
looool

[Hij]

All of the genre's you've mentioned have been inspired by Hip Hop at some stage so it's just going full circle.

You can start rapping on virtually anything and depending on who's doing it..it can be then classed as Hip Hop.
That's how it was created in the first place it leeches off of whatever style is around.

Yes Grime immediately came out of Garage ,but go further back and see how Hip Hop influenced Drum and Bass and continued to influence through the duration of these genre's with mans like Timbaland.

Currently i'd say that Grime is the new UK Hip Hop.

Safe for the well thought out reply. Inspired is the key word though though, Hip Hop has inspired people to start creating music, but the music itself is not stictly hip hop in the sense of the stuff that you hear from America.

This beat right now on Wiley - What Then ».>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Regardless if ALL the musics that influenced grime are influenced by Hip Hop... thats all they are an influence.

[screwface]

im sure hip hop came from jamaican toastin wen kool herc came from jamaica but do u hear anyone saying hip hop is reggae

[Hij]

At a very basic level.
Even if people concede its our version of Hip Hop, we want our own name and our own identity.

[Demos]

Regardless if ALL the musics that influenced grime are influenced by Hip Hop... thats all they are an influence.

real talk

[FG]

The 'pro hip hop' argument is quite convincing still, Retrofreak said some good things

But I think of tunes like 'Xtra' Ruff Sqwad and I think thats never hip hop, thats GRIME!

[Demos]

LOOL "i'm on point fans"=hip hop

[Hij]

This Wiley tune IS hip hop.
Ill concede that.

[Retrofreak]

its like saying dancehall is hip hop coz they spit on a beat, complete madness

hey!

Demo's

Dancehall and Hip Hop run parallel with each other ,cause they both came out of the same place "Reggae"
They continue to mirror each over it's like Busta and Vibz Cartel

[screwface]

TEMPER T - BATTLE RIDDIM
NEVER HIP HOP :p

[Hij]

All of the genre's you've mentioned have been inspired by Hip Hop at some stage so it's just going full circle.

You can start rapping on virtually anything and depending on who's doing it..it can be then classed as Hip Hop.
That's how it was created in the first place, it leeches off of whatever style is around.


No send but by your logic... Drum and Bass is also Hip Hop?

[Demos]

Demo's

Dancehall and Hip Hop run parallel with each other ,cause they both came out of the same place "Reggae"
They continue to mirror each over it's like Busta and Vibz Cartel

yeah but, is hip hop a sub genre of reggae?

[FG]

Scratcha makes a good point bout this Wiley tune

Gotta think of where an artist is and what he's tryna do though - at a stage in his career where he's trying to appeal to other markets, like the Rolex tune

Think of In At The Deep End - it was an album with grime elements, rather than the other way round, a grime album with sweetboy hip hop etc

Think of what they were tryna do then, hip hop is an easier way to appeal to other markets as its an established music

[Hij]

Hyperfrank, where are you at... lol

[Retrofreak]

im sure hip hop came from jamaican toastin wen kool herc came from jamaica but do u hear anyone saying hip hop is reggae

Depends on who's doing it check.

Das Efx
Slick Rick
Krs One
Fu-shnikens
Kardinal Offishal
Born-Jamaricans
Fu-gees

[Demos]

yeah it was me who said kill all a dem is hip hop, sounds like a 140 bpm hip hop tune to me (big tune never the less)

[Hij]

When that female spitter sprays though, thats when it feels grimey to me

I swear a lot is in the energy of the artist.

[Demos]

ahhh my stream has cut

[Hij]

My stream has gone as well and won't re-connect

[screwface]

disconnected and now it wont connect tut

[FG]

ahhh my stream has cut

.

[Retrofreak]

Wiley- Gangsters sounds like a Hip Hop tune to me.
Top 3 Selected- could be on a down south album.

I think its the fact of who's doing it sometimes defines what box it's placed in.

[Demos]

Wiley- Gangsters sounds like a Hip Hop tune to me.
Top 3 Selected- could be on a down south album.

I think its the fact of who's doing it sometimes defines what box it's placed in.

yeah i agree with gangsters being hip hop.

[Hij]

If Grime is NEW hip hop

what is current hip hop then :shifty:

[Demos]

streams back now

[Hij]

Same.

[Hij]

Ayo

[Hij]

Ayo Technology wa

[Retrofreak]

No send but by your logic... Drum and Bass is also Hip Hop?

Most of the guys that started Jungle where UK Hip Hop boys.

Listen to Uk Hip Hop circa 88-91 it was fast with reggae bass lines hence mans like:

Rebel MC
Silver Bullet
Demon Boyz
Ragga Twins
Daddy Freddy
Super Cat

[Retrofreak]

No send but by your logic... Drum and Bass is also Hip Hop?

Most of the guys that started Jungle where UK Hip Hop boys.

Listen to Uk Hip Hop circa 88-91 it was fast with reggae bass lines hence mans like:

Rebel MC
Silver Bullet
Demon Boyz
Ragga Twins
Daddy Freddy
Super Cat

[Hij]

LOL

That means everything is Hip Hop.

[Hij]

OFF WITH THEIR HEADS LOL.

big up scratcha joker

[screwface]

LOL

That means everything is Hip Hop.

no means everythink is reagga :P

[Demos]

every genre has roots in at least one other genre, doesnt make it the same. genres dont appear randomly, they evolve from other genres

[Retrofreak]

every genre has roots in at least one other genre, doesnt make it the same. genres dont appear randomly, they evolve from other genres

^^^^I agree with you totally.

I'm also saying that it's going full circle, the more refined the bars and production get the more it leans towards Hip Hop imo

[Demos]

^^^^I agree with you totally.

I'm also saying that it's going full circle, the more refined the bars and production get the more it leans towards Hip Hop imo
yeah i see what ur saying.

[Hij]

FUCK OFF

Goodz

battereing stageshow riddim

never heard this before

[Demos]

woah i never heard goodz stageshow riddim, :alot:

[screwface]

FUCK OFF

Goodz

battereing stageshow riddim

never heard this before

ive got the rip

[Hij]

That put every other stageshow riddim to shame

[screwface]

dis was on rwd ages ago dont u ppl memba tut lol

[Hij]

post the rip screwface please!

[screwface]

i dont have a rapidshare account or nutitn i dont even know how to upload tunes pmsl

[Hij]

dis was on rwd ages ago dont u ppl memba tut lol

RWD... whats that? :D

[Hij]

i dont have a rapidshare account or nutitn i dont even know how to upload tunes pmsl
www.yousendit.com (http://www.yousendit.com)
fill the form out
and send it
to
hijimi@gmail.com

[screwface]

kick him out :P LOL

[Hij]

Scratcha cracks me up lol

[Hij]

FINALLY
LOL
WHAT A TUNE
:itsalot:

[FG]

loooooooooooooool at the Logan tune

[Demos]

:wheel:


WHEEEEEEEEEELL

this logan tune is jokes

[Hij]

THIS SONG IS TOO MUCH LOL
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
I was asking Scratcha to play it while i was at home

[Hij]

sick good show as always...

[screwface]

hij allow dat its askin for my phone numba lol

[FG]

*starts skanking wildly*

[Demos]

i'm off to uni now, good show, interesting debate

[FG]

i'm off to uni now, good show, interesting debate

loooool same

was gonna leave at like 9.30 as well

oh well, big show

[Hij]

hij allow dat its askin for my phone numba lol
It shouldn't do?
just don't put a number in?

Safe Demos and Fullygrown catch you later, I gotta wait for Unknown to come on to do some work on the front page.

[SuperGee]

People are scared of calling Grime hip hop because everyone wants to be a pioneer..
Hip Hop came from somewhere else... UK artists are just looking for a way to make their mark on the global music scene.. We've been trying to get in on the act for tiiiiiiiime..
*
Everyone wants to be a shepherd, noone wants to be a sheep..
Noone like to admit it, but seems like everything we do/have is influenced by the US..

[S.Man]

Grime is its own genre.

The only thing that could be misleading is that hip-hop has influenced most urban areas around the world. So therefore when people see MCs, some have personal traits that may be viewed as hip-hop because they have been brought up in an urban environment.

But anyone who is from England and knows about the grime scene knows that it is different from Hip-Hop.

[Hij]

Influenced.
Not a copy.

Good post though SuperGee.

[SuperGee]

Grime is its own genre.

The only thing that could be misleading is that hip-hop has influenced most urban areas around the world. So therefore when people see MCs, some have personal traits that may be viewed as hip-hop because they have been brought up in an urban environment.

But anyone who is from England and knows about the grime scene knows that it is different from Hip-Hop.

Whats the difference really??

What do they do in Hip Hop that they don't do in Grime??? and vice versa

[Molecules]

Discuss with me LIVE NOW! on www.rinse.fm

msn: rinse.fm@hotmail.com
Text: 07919 655 181
GRIME BREAKFAST 8-11am

bollocks if i had known i wouldn't have gone to work!
my answer is NO. now to try and track down that doctor set.

[Hij]

I agree there are similarities but whats wrong with it having its own name.

Grime definitely feels more real.

In the sense that artists are hungry and less rich than their American equivalents.

[Retrofreak]

Grime to me is localized Rap music.

[Hij]

Grime to me is localized Rap music.
Agree.

But ive decided, I don't care what its called... its music I enjoy and at the end of the day thats all that counts

[S.Man]

Whats the difference really??

What do they do in Hip Hop that they don't do in Grime??? and vice versa

The music!

Thats why i said the lifestyles are basically the same. The people who know about the scene know we are not tryin to immitate hip-hop.

['nuum general]

I guess part of the argument is what you define as hip hop? For example i don't think crunk is hip hop & them styles have had a big influence on some recent tracks by grime artists.

I'd also say that, particularly early on, the emceeing style on grime is/was completely different to hip hop with the focus on writing 8 & 16 bar lyrics rather than 32 & 64 bars in hip hop. There's also things like the one line flows which where fairly predominant in grime when in started up. I agree that grime is moving more towards the US hip hop sounds & emcees like Brutal seem to be influenced by hip hop more than jungle & garage as early grime emcees where.

[Retrofreak]

I guess part of the argument is what you define as hip hop? For example i don't think crunk is hip hop & them styles have had a big influence on some recent tracks by grime artists.

I'd also say that, particularly early on, the emceeing style on grime is/was completely different to hip hop with the focus on writing 8 & 16 bar lyrics rather than 32 & 64 bars in hip hop. There's also things like the one line flows which where fairly predominant in grime when in started up. I agree that grime is moving more towards the US hip hop sounds & emcees like Brutal seem to be influenced by hip hop more than jungle & garage as early grime emcees where.

Crunk is a part of Hip Hop.
That's like saying Dance hall aint a part of Reggae.

8 & 16 bars have been spat by many US MC's

You'll find that most of the old skool US MC's with a west indian background covered the same ground where covering now,because they drew from Reggae.

Busta
Twista
Heavy D
Krs One
Biggie

[Jason P]

Some heavy real talk on these pages innit!

[FG]

I guess part of the argument is what you define as hip hop? For example i don't think crunk is hip hop & them styles have had a big influence on some recent tracks by grime artists.

I'd also say that, particularly early on, the emceeing style on grime is/was completely different to hip hop with the focus on writing 8 & 16 bar lyrics rather than 32 & 64 bars in hip hop. There's also things like the one line flows which where fairly predominant in grime when in started up. I agree that grime is moving more towards the US hip hop sounds & emcees like Brutal seem to be influenced by hip hop more than jungle & garage as early grime emcees where.

Agreed

Youngers are coming through now not really having listened to or being aware of the jungle and garage scenes, lot of them born in like 1990-2

Hip Hop has always been around so it is easier to relate to imo

[Anonymous]

Grime Isnt Like Hip Hop.
Perhaps Some Similarities.
But They Are Different.

[FG]

Grime Isnt Like Hip Hop.
Perhaps Some Similarities.
But They Are Different.

Thats what I thought earlier

Must say though Scratcha's points were convincing though, question is hard - I think I look at the situation differently now

[Anonymous]

Thats what I thought earlier

Must say though Scratcha's points were convincing though, question is hard - I think I look at the situation differently now

What Was He Saying?

[FG]

What Was He Saying?

Can't even say off the top of my head, I was getting confused, too early and the question was kinda deep

Dunno what to say man, look back at the posts... the show was big though, I would say download it when its up on the rinse site

[Hij]

Scratcha never commits to an opinion on his show, it keeps the debate going lol

[Anonymous]

Can't even say off the top of my head, I was getting confused, too early and the question was kinda deep

Dunno what to say man, look back at the posts... the show was big though, I would say download it when its up on the rinse site

Alrigt Safe.
Im Half Expecting To Hear Scratcha Comparing The Come Up Of Hip Hop In The 70's And 80's Against Grime.
Like Saying How Hip Hop Come From Genre's Like Soul, Disco, Etc. And Then Grime From Garage And Stuff.
Im Sort Of Guessing A Few Bait Points But Im Interested To Know If There Are Any Others.

[Anonymous]

Scratcha never commits to an opinion on his show, it keeps the debate going lol

He Is A Good Host Still.

[Hij]

He is lol but I bet he has an opinion, but he can't say his on the show or it will kill the debate.

[Pred]

Maybe he will state it on here then :)

[Demos]

rah this thread is still going.

bang bang cancelled lectures gang lol

:alot:

[Hij]

MAYBE!

We'll see

[ALM]

pissed I missed this

Grime is not Hip Hop

It just is not.

Grime is Grime.

When you hear a grimey song you know its grimey ennit.

[D-Structo]

i remember me and scratcha had da same debate in studio time ago.

i dunno what he said coz i missed da show ... but i remember him saying grime is more of a culture than a music genre... and all different music styles influence that culture.

[feasible_weasel]

its not the MC that defines the genre, its the beat

indeed

[SuperGee]

pissed I missed this

Grime is not Hip Hop

It just is not.

Grime is Grime.

When you hear a grimey song you know its grimey ennit.

When you here OG's - Get Down... What do you think... hip hop or grime??
The lines are too blurred.. you can't pigeon hole it anymore..

In the 2step garage days it was a bit easier to differenciate, but now.. Its down to interpretation... Like I said before.. Its just a mindstate.. Surely the labelling doesn't add or take anything away from the actual tune anyways, so what does it matter???

Any Thoughts??

[Hij]

Surely the labelling doesn't add or take anything away from the actual tune anyways, so what does it matter???

Any Thoughts??

Thats what Im thinking.

I prefer the Garagey/Grimey stuff more than Get Down though

[ALM]

Thats what Im thinking.

I prefer the Garagey/Grimey stuff more than Get Down though

I dont like Hip hop though

So therfore grime isnt hip hop.

Maybe its just the british thing

[adidasgrandad]

When you here OG's - Get Down... What do you think... hip hop or grime??
The lines are too blurred.. you can't pigeon hole it anymore..

In the 2step garage days it was a bit easier to differenciate, but now.. Its down to interpretation... Like I said before.. Its just a mindstate.. Surely the labelling doesn't add or take anything away from the actual tune anyways, so what does it matter???

Any Thoughts??

i think hip hop when i hear that. people say the lines are blurred but its not hard really to differenciate. give me a standard beat from wiley / rapid / maniac / joker and then give me a standard hip hop producers beat and the differences will be quite clear.

your right bout labelling though. it really does mean nothing

[SuperGee]

i think hip hop when i hear that. people say the lines are blurred but its not hard really to differenciate. give me a standard beat from wiley / rapid / maniac / joker and then give me a standard hip hop producers beat and the differences will be quite clear.

your right bout labelling though. it really does mean nothing


What about Xtra... produced by Rapid..

Put any US rapper over that... you'd be calling that str8 hip hop

Same with most "grime' tunes right??!?


Scratcha definately hit the nail on the head with this topic... very thought provoking:D

[Quality Control]

nope

[SuperGee]

Another tune to show how blurred the lines are..

Bet Movado's never heard of Grime..

08-movado---guns-out.mp3 - 3.50MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/7383845bdf23d7/)

[D-Structo]

Another tune to show how blurred the lines are..

Bet Movado's never heard of Grime..

08-movado---guns-out.mp3 - 3.50MB (http://www.zshare.net/audio/7383845bdf23d7/)

FwqjaFcTvTM

you sure????

**and i understand the first beat is reggae really... but the 2nd beat is obviously full grime**

he was strugglin to ride top 3 selected though but still lol big up movado sameway

EDIT : Man never clocked that black panther looking dude on the sideline before LOL