I think the mixtape formula will fade out this year.

[The Elijah]

"Mixtapes" are going to be Free Download only, and albums or at least independant street releases as logan was calling them, distributed properly, like Freedom of Speech and Grime Wave are going to be the way to take the levels up.

I think the whole pressing 1000 cds thing and trying to drop them in Ukrecordshop will be dead, Maybe it is dead already. There hasn't been the same hype for Riko, Trim and Ghetto as there was last year for Jammer, Wiley and Trim when they all came out on the same day.

We are getting quality free releases from people on the regular and artists are finding other methods to pay the bills, and not relying solely on the sales of their mixtape to function. Merchandise may increase, but with more on the market it may encourage originality, or a price decrease to encourage more people to buy it.

Pushing one or two of your strong tunes in a focused way instead of 19 mixtape tunes is the way forward. I was saying to Buckfaster the other day, I would of rather spend money on Ghetto - Top 3 Selected Vocal, Instrumental and Remix and Stageshow Don Vocal and Instrumental as a B side rather then Ghetto Gospel as a whole mixtape project.

Most of the big 10 grime artists will probably use Youtube as a first option rather then channel U to release their video. Look at how many hits Skeptas Over The Top has had. That is more effective and cheaper then a small channel U or Base campaign.

My hope is that alongside these Independant Street Albums we get decent vinyl coming alongside to support them. Hardrive Vol.1 is the perfect example of a CD that needed a vinyl to come out at the same time. I would lose a finger for Reloaded instrumental, or Morph instrumental. If this shift changed artists would think more about the beats they choose as they would have to sell those as well. Freedom of Speech is good, but I couldnt listen to any of them instrumentals on their own. Thats why I enjoy JMEs mixtapes so much because the beats are excellent.

Do you lot think im way of with this one? How do you lot think Grime will change releases wise this year?

I could of made this a blog post. But its good to talk.

[Retrofreak]

A mixtape is a mixtape and an album is an album the only variable is quality imo.

All this talk of Independent street album means nothing in the grand scheme of things.

You either make and promote good products or you don't that's it.

These formats will still be around, but will change as the artists spend more time R&Ding so they can up the levels from previous releases.

Artist development is the key to having better quality music and performances period.

Man's like Ghetto are still in the development stages..hell even Wiley lol

Quality over Quantity is the better maxim ,but there is a trade off.

We cant expect mans to be exhausting their bars on sets and myspace's then complain that their album isn't fresh because they've rinsed their lyrics.

I think constantly doing free mixtape's is a bad idea as there is still time and effort that goes into penning bars for which an artist recieves NO publishing....

just a pat on the back and two weeks worth of Logan hype!

[The Elijah]

If your on the levels, you wont have to do a free mixtape. People will be happy to be pay for your ting.

Better that people hear it then nobody buy it right?

All these people you lot rate, I dont even bother to check more time, I think when the good tunes come, I will hear them. But I still pay attention to whatever these people are doing.

[adidasgrandad]

"Mixtapes" are going to be Free Download only, and albums or at least independant street releases as logan was calling them, distributed properly, like Freedom of Speech and Grime Wave are going to be the way to take the levels up.

I think the whole pressing 1000 cds thing and trying to drop them in Ukrecordshop will be dead, Maybe it is dead already.


i agree. i think this is the year where things become more professional in terms of distribution. for example FOS got sold in hmv, itunes, amazon and bare other places like you'd expect an album to be. i can see same with grimewave judging by the banners iv seen. but the word mixtape, its just that, its a word. doesnt matter what you call it. i think the fact that they are calling them independent street releases just reflects the more professionalism and effort put into them.

[Retrofreak]

A good album or poor album is still that....an album same goes for mixtapes imo.

Making new catogories to file things under isnt gonna fix the problem.

You either make good products and promote them properly or you don't...simple!!

[Carter]

The way JME did the whole mixtape thing was big but everbody else is living in some 50 Cent dream land where they release mixtapes and get signed by Sony because they showed their versatility.......NO SORRY MATE!!!!!

Albums, EPs and Singles are the way to go.....DIY business because we are in the best position now with Logan Sama, Tim Westwood, Kiss 100, 1xtra, MTV Base, Channel U and RWD to make our own product, promote and sell it like professionals in the industry.....1000 copies in UK Record Shop means fuck all to the music industry or anybody not on RWD Forum or Grime Forum.

If I saw somebody who released 3 albums by himself, promoted them on legel radio and had some low budget but decent videos on rotation, I would sign him over Dolla Da Dustman and his 20000 mixtapes that nobody outside of North London has heard

[Hij]

The way JME did the whole mixtape thing was big but everbody else is living in some 50 Cent dream land where they release mixtapes and get signed by Sony because they showed their versatility.......NO SORRY MATE!!!!!

Albums, EPs and Singles are the way to go.....DIY business because we are in the best position now with Logan Sama, Tim Westwood, Kiss 100, 1xtra, MTV Base, Channel U and RWD to make our own product, promote and sell it like professionals in the industry.....1000 copies in UK Record Shop means fuck all to the music industry or anybody not on RWD Forum or Grime Forum.

If I saw somebody who released 3 albums by himself, promoted them on legel radio and had some low budget but decent videos on rotation, I would sign him over Dolla Da Dustman and his 20000 mixtapes that nobody outside of North London has heard

Me and Carter agreeing 100% on something.

*Steps Back In Shock*

[Carter]

LOL.........

The mixtape thing is bullshit anyway all of the tracks are original songs, some have a couple of freestyle but they are still albums....Devlin Tales From The Crypt sounds like a debut album, with better packaging, its would have been a great product

[Hij]

LOL.........

The mixtape thing is bullshit anyway all of the tracks are original songs, some have a couple of freestyle but they are still albums....Devlin Tales From The Crypt sounds like a debut album, with better packaging, its would have been a great product

Yeah, although the artwork doesn't always relate to the quality of the music inside, it could have done with something better.

[The Elijah]

i hate the way artists make average tunes 4 mixtapes

[Retrofreak]

LOL.........

The mixtape thing is bullshit anyway all of the tracks are original songs, some have a couple of freestyle but they are still albums....Devlin Tales From The Crypt sounds like a debut album, with better packaging, its would have been a great product

Agreed.

[Xtra P]

Sometimes artist call there albums "mixtapes" to avoid sample clearance

[Random Impulse]

Sometimes artist call there albums "mixtapes" to avoid sample clearance

...tiz true..

[The Elijah]

Sometimes artist call there albums "mixtapes" to avoid sample clearance

half truth.

the mixtape thing is just to turn over money quickly. It hasn't been used very well so far I think. I think promotional efforts behind most mixtapes bar JMEs and Skitz, Ghetto Gospel and a few others were shoody

['nuum general]

I think the problem with the mixtape format is that everyone feels compelled to make it 20 tracks long. you get the feeling with most mixtapes that on quite a few tracks the artist is going through the motions to add a few extra tracks on, rather than take the axiom or cloud 9 route of putting 9 decent tracks out and leaving it at that.

The other point is that there are no singles released in grime nowadays. Whether this is because artists think fans are happy with a radio rip off logans show i don't know but certainly i feel there is a need for the big tracks to be released along with the instrumental. This would aid up & coming djs and in the longer term probably help improve the rave scene

[pcollins]

yeh the mixtape thing seems a bit counter productive. didnt trim say he was putting in 50% -70% effort on soulfood and if he isnt signed after hes done 6 hes going to quit grime? wouldnt it of been better putting all that effort into one album of amazing songs rather than 6 mixtapes ofaverage ones?

[The Elijah]

yeh the mixtape thing seems a bit counter productive. didnt trim say he was putting in 50% -70% effort on soulfood and if he isnt signed after hes done 6 hes going to quit grime? wouldnt it of been better putting all that effort into one album of amazing songs rather than 6 mixtapes ofaverage ones?

nail

[adidasgrandad]

yeh the mixtape thing seems a bit counter productive. didnt trim say he was putting in 50% -70% effort on soulfood and if he isnt signed after hes done 6 hes going to quit grime? wouldnt it of been better putting all that effort into one album of amazing songs rather than 6 mixtapes ofaverage ones?

waste of his time if you ask me. should have just released one really fucked cd then waited to see how that went...would have saved him loads of money from pressing cd's as well.

[Danny Trejo]

I just think overkill's the undoing of the whole mixtape concept. When there was only the odd release every now and again, I'd end up buying some random weird mixtape from UKRS. I even bought Tiny Dee's, ffs.
Thing is now though, every MC I've ever heard of (and a load I haven't) have tapes on their myspace, UKRS, avalanche, whatever. I just can't be bothered with a lot of it. When Griminal's sick on radio and all that and he's got a free one out, why would I pay for Ears' tape? I haven't even heard a song, when was he last on radio? Never.

I think the bigger artists will still sell, and the quality stuff, the people who put in work. Like the OGs tape, yeah it was delayed, but they were on radio constantly, the lead single was big, and they did well. I bought it.

People just need to step up their work ethic.

['nuum general]

I just think overkill's the undoing of the whole mixtape concept. When there was only the odd release every now and again, I'd end up buying some random weird mixtape from UKRS. I even bought Tiny Dee's, ffs.
Thing is now though, every MC I've ever heard of (and a load I haven't) have tapes on their myspace, UKRS, avalanche, whatever. I just can't be bothered with a lot of it. When Griminal's sick on radio and all that and he's got a free one out, why would I pay for Ears' tape? I haven't even heard a song, when was he last on radio? Never.

I think the bigger artists will still sell, and the quality stuff, the people who put in work. Like the OGs tape, yeah it was delayed, but they were on radio constantly, the lead single was big, and they did well. I bought it.

People just need to step up their work ethic.

good point, a lot of people seem to make a cd, release it then go on logans to promote it then dissapear again (eg seb zero). I'd like to see mcs going radio more regular, even if its just once a month. Also putting out a couple of singles whilst their making the cd would keep the interest there rather than them dissapearing of the map for a year

[The Elijah]

I just think overkill's the undoing of the whole mixtape concept. When there was only the odd release every now and again, I'd end up buying some random weird mixtape from UKRS. I even bought Tiny Dee's, ffs.
Thing is now though, every MC I've ever heard of (and a load I haven't) have tapes on their myspace, UKRS, avalanche, whatever. I just can't be bothered with a lot of it. When Griminal's sick on radio and all that and he's got a free one out, why would I pay for Ears' tape? I haven't even heard a song, when was he last on radio? Never.

I think the bigger artists will still sell, and the quality stuff, the people who put in work. Like the OGs tape, yeah it was delayed, but they were on radio constantly, the lead single was big, and they did well. I bought it.

People just need to step up their work ethic.

yea Ears should of come back with a big tune really to warrant releasing a mixtape. I wouldnt risk coming out with just a mixtape out of nowhere the risk is to high.

OGs did well, got in the mix fully. and it is a good starting point and an introduction to them as a collective. look at other crews who have been together 4 years aint done anything.

[Nine Bar]

I think the problem with the mixtape format is that everyone feels compelled to make it 20 tracks long. you get the feeling with most mixtapes that on quite a few tracks the artist is going through the motions to add a few extra tracks on, rather than take the axiom or cloud 9 route of putting 9 decent tracks out and leaving it at that.

The other point is that there are no singles released in grime nowadays. Whether this is because artists think fans are happy with a radio rip off logans show i don't know but certainly i feel there is a need for the big tracks to be released along with the instrumental. This would aid up & coming djs and in the longer term probably help improve the rave scene

.

['nuum general]

I agree OGs did well. They created hype with 2 big singles in get down & money along with doing radio regularly and merking raves. They followed it up with a solid cd which had no filler material. I hope others take note of this.

[The Elijah]

I agree OGs did well. They created hype with 2 big singles in get down & money along with doing radio regularly and merking raves. They followed it up with a solid cd which had no filler material. I hope others take note of this.

they wont.

[Danny Trejo]

It's a good point about the producer mixtapes, though. Why don't they just bring out a vinyl? I wouldn't dream of buying Hard Drive (especially after hearing it), but give me a 4 track vinyl, even a 2 track vinyl, and I'd bite your hand off.
Just doesn't make any sense, especially when you see how much dubstep vinyl sells. And a lot the people buying dubstep (myself included) would buy grime vinyl if it was there. I only buy dubstep because there's no grime I want and I don't want to be a CD DJ downloading CDQs.

[The Elijah]

It's a good point about the producer mixtapes, though. Why don't they just bring out a vinyl? I wouldn't dream of buying Hard Drive (especially after hearing it), but give me a 4 track vinyl, even a 2 track vinyl, and I'd bite your hand off.
Just doesn't make any sense, especially when you see how much dubstep vinyl sells. And a lot the people buying dubstep (myself included) would buy grime vinyl if it was there. I only buy dubstep because there's no grime I want and I don't want to be a CD DJ downloading CDQs.

dun know. Slackk check ur PMs bruv

[Ari Gold]

i went uptown records to pick up some grime vinyls last month, you know what i ended up leaving with?

take note LAST MONTH

essentials - so much better
skitz beatz - battle riddim ep
slewdem - bumbaclart badman

now im pretty fucking sure all of these were like, 06, early 07 releases. im talking feb 08 here and that was the best i could find in a place thats meant to be one of the MAIN grime outlets. no sendage to uptown, theres just fuck all for them to stock.

although when i got in i found that he had accidently given me road warfare ep instead of battle riddim, which i paid £8 for, and is £1 on the website. PAR.

[Equilibrium]

the free download thing is dumb cos most grime mcs, dont hav enough exposure to just go out ther and do an album and expect it to sell
people like wiley and ghetts should stil sell their mixtapes cos i think that adds value to it instead of givin it away for free

[The Elijah]

the free download thing is dumb cos most grime mcs, dont hav enough exposure to just go out ther and do an album and expect it to sell
people like wiley and ghetts should stil sell their mixtapes cos i think that adds value to it instead of givin it away for free

dilemna is, sell and no1 hear or buy

or free and people may hear

[Hij]

A free EP can also do a lot of good. I have mates at work who like Grime and with no guilt, I could knock them up each a CD of the DEVZ EP. I've pushed it to people on other forums to mixed responses. Free stuff as long as its not all your best work can at least get you heard and get your name out there.

P Money and Griminal made the right moves and I believe in future this could help swing me towards purchasing a release of theirs.

[The Elijah]

the "free market" will become competitive. it is already. right now the competition is for hard drive space over cd wall space

[Jimmy Darmody]

i think mcs wud beneift more by doing eps lik devlin did..just make a few decent songs which showcase there talent to get people intrested..plus this means they dont have to make a 20 track mixtape which they have to give away for free bascially

['nuum general]

vinyl releases, or at least digital single releases with instrumentals are a must. People must stop pissing about with the excuse "they won't sell".

secondly i'd like to see the free releases in a more digestable format because half the time i d/l a 10-15 track promo and don't get round to listening to it. To me short promos (ie max 8 tracks) containing dubs/freestyles over the big current instrumentals is what i'd like to hear. Bring back the riddim tracks!

[The Elijah]

Bring back the riddim tracks!

nailll

[Ari Gold]

its true you know. what happened to the whole idea of everyone vocalling the same heavy instrumentals

its competative, but without war, and its better than 8 bar relay tracks.

the closest we have had to that recently was black boys and although i did like it, i always sort of felt isolated when listnin to it. like, obviously its not really there for me.

['nuum general]

like it or not, look at the hype stageshow created as a riddim track. Heavy bars on hype beats like this are a lot better than your average mixtape track imo

[RAISED BY WOLVES]

Quick question...

I always see people on here bitching about the various mail order outlets for mixtapes and all that, and I wonder...Can you not buy a grime mixtape hand to hand in a shop in London or other smaller cities these days?

Could you ever?

In some ways, I think grime artists have misunderstood the format of the mixtape, it works well as a promotional tool, but as the be all and end all of their efforts, it lacks the presence and permanence of a proper album release.

['nuum general]

Quick question...

I always see people on here bitching about the various mail order outlets for mixtapes and all that, and I wonder...Can you not buy a grime mixtape hand to hand in a shop in London or other smaller cities these days?

only in major cities due to lack of independant record stores nowadays




In some ways, I think grime artists have misunderstood the format of the mixtape, it works well as a promotional tool, but as the be all and end all of their efforts, it lacks the presence and permanence of a proper album release.

agreed

[RAISED BY WOLVES]

only in major cities due to lack of independant record stores nowadays

So does the whole of this forum not live in the city? Swear I've almost never seen someone be like: "yeah I just got back from the shop with the new this, that, or the other thing". It's always like: "I ordered it monday, so it should be in the post today and arrive tomorrow, but it's not here! Fuck ROYAL MAIL!!!" or some shit.

That's weak though. A few years back when the mixtape scene was really live in NY, every hood had a spot where you could get 5 tapes for $20, and they would be quality too. But even now that the RIAA have clamped down, I'd still have no problem tracking down the latest releases in the streets.

['nuum general]

I live in a city but the only independant record shops here only sell old stuff. I've never had many problems with ukrs though

[Jay05]

The thing which srurpises me is the people who do this and dont have a job and producve 1 cd a year

Considering very few grime acts go on tour that is a shocking workrate.

Wiley, Ghetto, JME, Stryder and possibility OG's now r the only people who have a decent output. What the fuck is every1 else doing.

Devlin hardly ever gets booked for raves and released a mixtape in 06 and now nearly halfway through 08 is releasing a second.

Skepta does appear to have uppe dhis workrate but 2 years for an album is again shockingly bad

[The Elijah]

The thing which srurpises me is the people who do this and dont have a job and producve 1 cd a year

Considering very few grime acts go on tour that is a shocking workrate.

Wiley, Ghetto, JME, Stryder and possibility OG's now r the only people who have a decent output. What the fuck is every1 else doing.

Devlin hardly ever gets booked for raves and released a mixtape in 06 and now nearly halfway through 08 is releasing a second.

Skepta does appear to have uppe dhis workrate but 2 years for an album is again shockingly bad

still yet to see devs in a rave, lets see if he turns up this week.

[4737]

bring back vinyl ep's.

nuff said.

t.

[TerrorS]

I undestand what people are saying but....

Devlin has had bookings all over the place. Manchester, Northampton, Leeds, Bristol i could go on. It's rare for him to get booked in london from some reason but hes had a few.

to Jay05: What makes you think he doesnt have a job??

He released Tales... in october 06, took a break from music early 07 due to personal issues but still done a lot Sets, Bookings and mixtape features. he started Bud... late 07 and is releasing it this year. I dont see the problem tbh.

[4737]

what kinda fees for shows is devs askin these days? pm.

t.

[adidasgrandad]

get him on some sets

[The Elijah]

"Mixtapes" are going to be Free Download only, and albums or at least independant street releases as logan was calling them, distributed properly, like Freedom of Speech and Grime Wave are going to be the way to take the levels up.

I think the whole pressing 1000 cds thing and trying to drop them in Ukrecordshop will be dead, Maybe it is dead already. There hasn't been the same hype for Riko, Trim and Ghetto as there was last year for Jammer, Wiley and Trim when they all came out on the same day.

We are getting quality free releases from people on the regular and artists are finding other methods to pay the bills, and not relying solely on the sales of their mixtape to function. Merchandise may increase, but with more on the market it may encourage originality, or a price decrease to encourage more people to buy it.

Pushing one or two of your strong tunes in a focused way instead of 19 mixtape tunes is the way forward. I was saying to Buckfaster the other day, I would of rather spend money on Ghetto - Top 3 Selected Vocal, Instrumental and Remix and Stageshow Don Vocal and Instrumental as a B side rather then Ghetto Gospel as a whole mixtape project.

Most of the big 10 grime artists will probably use Youtube as a first option rather then channel U to release their video. Look at how many hits Skeptas Over The Top has had. That is more effective and cheaper then a small channel U or Base campaign.

My hope is that alongside these Independant Street Albums we get decent vinyl coming alongside to support them. Hardrive Vol.1 is the perfect example of a CD that needed a vinyl to come out at the same time. I would lose a finger for Reloaded instrumental, or Morph instrumental. If this shift changed artists would think more about the beats they choose as they would have to sell those as well. Freedom of Speech is good, but I couldnt listen to any of them instrumentals on their own. Thats why I enjoy JMEs mixtapes so much because the beats are excellent.

Do you lot think im way of with this one? How do you lot think Grime will change releases wise this year?

I could of made this a blog post. But its good to talk.

A year on was I right or wrong? Very few 'mixtape' releases this year. More single releases, free downloads

Where are all the artists that have been appearing on Westwood this year? Most arent in stores.

The instrumental situation has been solved with the temporary influx of instrumental cds from Nocturnal, Terror, Silencer, Swindle, Maniac and others.

Use of Youtube over channel U? Look at the rise of SB.TV, Skepta & Giggs video, Next Hype, Grimedaily etc.

[Andre]

ive been saying for time that mcs should drop a few quality tunes like say one a month or so on average rather than an average mixtape or album

if tempz had dropped next hype in january, new day in february and star 9s in march the year would already be his

remixes or instrumentals could be the B sides

[Nokia]

A year on was I right or wrong?


Spot on, you killed it.

Unless you used admin powers to edit all the posts!

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1648/adminpwnagezb3uf6.gif

[Grimes]

all the pointless debates ectera, the mixtape era will continue as long as there is demand.

[Grimes]

This is what happens when the whole scene is built around one guys show.

To come on Logan's you need a release (usually)

[Andre]

your release doesn't have to be a mixtape though does it

[zoot crack]

bring back vinyl ep's.

nuff said.

t.

this tbh

[Grimes]

your release doesn't have to be a mixtape though does it

this is true.

we'll see init.

does the price of an e.p compared to a mixtape/album.

[Andre]

yeah vinyl eps are all good if you got a player

i do, but most of my friends don't

if people are unwilling to even pay for a mixtape who's gonna buy a piece of expensive equipment

[Andre]

this is true.

we'll see init.

does the price of an e.p compared to a mixtape/album.

i only know from other genres i listen to

ep is normally 4 or 5 pounds in a commercial shop like hmv

[Dan-91]

A year on was I right or wrong? Very few 'mixtape' releases this year. More single releases, free downloads

Where are all the artists that have been appearing on Westwood this year? Most arent in stores.

The instrumental situation has been solved with the temporary influx of instrumental cds from Nocturnal, Terror, Silencer, Swindle, Maniac and others.

Use of Youtube over channel U? Look at the rise of SB.TV, Skepta & Giggs video, Next Hype, Grimedaily etc.
http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2634771/2/istockphoto_2634771_hitting_a_nail_on_the_head.jpg

Well said.

[Grimes]

the price has a marginal difference, for a drop in the number of average songs per cd content.

[Andre]

if mcs did shows which weren't over 18s like bands do then they would make shit loads of money

i go and see about 4 bands live per week i probably spend 30 quid a month on gigs

if i could see mcs live then i would

plus the artists get the money not a label

[Dan-91]

the price has a marginal difference, for a drop in the number of average songs per cd content.
True, but for the amount of filler tracks that are on mixtapes these days I'd happily pay near the same for 8-12 decent tracks than 20+ where I have to skip certain tunes.

[Grimes]

Elijah is wrong, as the mixtape formula didn't fade away, its still the forefront of this scene and gathers the most attention.

the fact that there less and less mixtapes releases, is simply the fact that theyre are not many emcees in the scene are declining more and more.

if we have more emcees in the scene, there would be more mixtapes.

[Grimes]

True, but for the amount of filler tracks that are on mixtapes these days I'd happily pay near the same for 8-12 decent tracks than 20+ where I have to skip certain tunes.

i anticipated this response

what you designate as swag or fillers is totally subjective, not everyone likes the same tracks

[Gizzle]

Very interesting read. So u guys think that E.P's (even free ones) and digital single releases are the way forward instead of full mixtapes in which only half of the tunes are decent???

[Grimes]

Very interesting read. So u guys think that E.P's (even free ones) and digital single releases are the way forward instead of full mixtapes in which only half of the tunes are decent???

no Elijah does,

its good way dn't get me wrong

but only the future will tell.

[Andre]

as i say, i think mcs should do shows which are open to over 16s

[Shadow]

In the way am looking at it, it shudnt be the case that artists have to struggle to find different ways of selling material

cos at the end of the day, the bottomline is the music! so whatever it is whether it is an EP, Mixtape, Album, Vinyl or whatever and however u wnna name it and package it.. it's still the music that will critical deciding point..

and it works different ways for different mc's and producers, some artists can't hold a full on mixtape/album, but there r others that can, again some artists r able to keep their hype up by constant material being dished out (responding to the free mixtape point), while other artists e.g. Tempz at the moment can afford to have 1 tune and build hype upon that.. but it all depends they all have there bad and good sides..

but regardless of what method if the music is good and the marketing is spot on.. anything can sell..

what i think must be done is increase the work-rate of ev1 aswell as artists.. right now grime is losing a bit of substance and strong hold on the streets etc. but lack of activity makes it worse.. increase the activity and the engine will start to move.. the rest will come automatically..

vvv THE ENGINE vvv

-> producers make beats -> artists make tunes -> engineers get suttin to do, so studios r there -> dj's get tunes -> radio has something to play -> artists promote music -> which gives journalist, photographers, video directors etc. things to do -> which gets more people talking -> promoters see opportunity and make events -> artists get booked -> crowds get gathered -> releases come out -> people buy -> people demand for more-> go back to stage 1->

so at the moment we're stuck in the early stages because there's lack of workrate and motivation.. the more the cycle turns the more people enter it..

now wid people complaining ders 1 or 2 official shows for grime, that's because thats is more than enough to accomodate the scene as it is at the moment...

but the more u turn the cycle and it slowly gets bigger.. and pressure wud be put on stations and other organisations to also accomodate for the scene.. but also because it wud be in their interest to because there wud be a constant flow of work and money invovled..

some people can argue.. but what about the "powers that be" will control things.. but i don't buy that cos.. when u were just coming up without no label support and just pushing urself on road "the powers that be" were not stopping u! u just kept on doing ur thing.. but now that u've tasted a bit of sucess and then u get pushed back down.. u decide theres nothing u can do.. and all ur hunger just goes cos u think u cant get thru.. i say dats bullshit..

its the workrate thats it! the scene has become lazy.. and thats why everyone wants a quick buck.. and every1s trying a mainstream hit cos dey see der brother doing it.. its all down to laziness.. u can get mainstream and all that but onli a few will shoot off and its VERY short term plus ur release ur power to the labels that sign u.. u damage the scene in the long run because u change the entire scape by doing two different things.. when u make ur mainstream hit and its not grime, u have not helped the "Grime scene" u've helped urself.. but realise ur going on that journey alone.. and eventually the majors will exploit it and start bring tru bere heads but it wont be grime.. it will be the major's scene..

i say increase workrate.. and maintain a thick skin.. cos all actions of the top acts effect every1 within the chain.. i understand u need money (don't we all) but u have to weigh it out.. and think to the future.. cos ur 100k or whatever u get will run out in 2 years.. then when u get dropped what will u do then..

when u get ur mainstream hits.. ur not helping the producers within the scene cos they aint makin ur beats.. ur not helping the dj's cos der not playing them songs, ur not helping any1 within the scene cos.. everything will be done by the label.. so ur leaving the power to the majors and BBC etc..

u might think impossible.. but look at Kiss FM, they were a pirate station.. westwood and all them DJ's and people involved back in that time built that station from scratch and built an audience from scratch and look where kiss fm is now..

nothing is impossible, just needs every wheel on the car to do it's jobs.. not just mc's releases.. every1.. and the scene should open up doors.. the wealth and hype is too closed doors and is distributed within a few.. so the system is already closing doors..

if u have to go mainstream make sure u make as much money as possible, and inject some of that into the scene..

BUT I'LL STOP HEREE.. opinions r welcome..

[Shadow]

and to add to my point.. is professionalism, they needs to be a maintained calender like schedule of releases in succession.. cos then ur audience know that at around a certain time.. your new songs r gnna come out and they'll be ready to buy.. just because dey get used to the motion..

take tinchy for example.. they have released his single's in a nice steady fashion.. it's almost like every 6 weeks.. the new song is released for people to hear.. and all the songs have had videos etc. mind u tinchy's videos have not been that expensive.. so they're economizing and getting mazimum profits.. and making sure the demand is kept..

[Revolution]

mixtapes are important in simply showcasing the ability of the MC

[Revolution]

its up to the Mc to ensure that that mixtape is of good quality

[Revolution]

there is an argument to say that some mc's get too much exposure down to these mixtapes... however to be the best you need to be able to have a good release... only releasing singles restrict the artist

[swiiing]

i hate mix cds.
i feel ripped off after i buy each one.
theres very VERY few where i havent felt annoyed that i wasted 6/7 pounds on them.
i dont see or know what the diff is between a 'street album' and a mix cd tho - there isnt a diff as far as i can see, except ppl say its an album if its good, a mix cd if its not.

the gens album, even tho i only liked half of it was still better than most guys mix cds, cos it was done properly, and those songs were well made and produced/recorded. most mix cds arent.

id rather hear an mc put some time into doing an album or just released 12s cos face it most of these guys cant make albums, theyre only good at making a few songs here and there. nothing wrong with that but when i hear 70 mins with only 2 or 3 TOPS good songs on there, it seems like a waste of everyones time.
it also ruins their rep in a way cos they make you listen to so much shit material.
but i dont see this changing cos these artists have got no plan or clue about what to do/what theyre doing...
too much of a sheep mentality in grime...

mix cds are just a way to put some money in an artists pocket. nothing more/less.

[Grimes]

In the way am looking at it, it shudnt be the case that artists have to struggle to find different ways of selling material

cos at the end of the day, the bottomline is the music! so whatever it is whether it is an EP, Mixtape, Album, Vinyl or whatever and however u wnna name it and package it.. it's still the music that will critical deciding point..

and it works different ways for different mc's and producers, some artists can't hold a full on mixtape/album, but there r others that can, again some artists r able to keep their hype up by constant material being dished out (responding to the free mixtape point), while other artists e.g. Tempz at the moment can afford to have 1 tune and build hype upon that.. but it all depends they all have there bad and good sides..

but regardless of what method if the music is good and the marketing is spot on.. anything can sell..

what i think must be done is increase the work-rate of ev1 aswell as artists.. right now grime is losing a bit of substance and strong hold on the streets etc. but lack of activity makes it worse.. increase the activity and the engine will start to move.. the rest will come automatically..

vvv THE ENGINE vvv

-> producers make beats -> artists make tunes -> engineers get suttin to do, so studios r there -> dj's get tunes -> radio has something to play -> artists promote music -> which gives journalist, photographers, video directors etc. things to do -> which gets more people talking -> promoters see opportunity and make events -> artists get booked -> crowds get gathered -> releases come out -> people buy -> people demand for more-> go back to stage 1->

so at the moment we're stuck in the early stages because there's lack of workrate and motivation.. the more the cycle turns the more people enter it..

now wid people complaining ders 1 or 2 official shows for grime, that's because thats is more than enough to accomodate the scene as it is at the moment...

but the more u turn the cycle and it slowly gets bigger.. and pressure wud be put on stations and other organisations to also accomodate for the scene.. but also because it wud be in their interest to because there wud be a constant flow of work and money invovled..

some people can argue.. but what about the "powers that be" will control things.. but i don't buy that cos.. when u were just coming up without no label support and just pushing urself on road "the powers that be" were not stopping u! u just kept on doing ur thing.. but now that u've tasted a bit of sucess and then u get pushed back down.. u decide theres nothing u can do.. and all ur hunger just goes cos u think u cant get thru.. i say dats bullshit..

its the workrate thats it! the scene has become lazy.. and thats why everyone wants a quick buck.. and every1s trying a mainstream hit cos dey see der brother doing it.. its all down to laziness.. u can get mainstream and all that but onli a few will shoot off and its VERY short term plus ur release ur power to the labels that sign u.. u damage the scene in the long run because u change the entire scape by doing two different things.. when u make ur mainstream hit and its not grime, u have not helped the "Grime scene" u've helped urself.. but realise ur going on that journey alone.. and eventually the majors will exploit it and start bring tru bere heads but it wont be grime.. it will be the major's scene..

i say increase workrate.. and maintain a thick skin.. cos all actions of the top acts effect every1 within the chain.. i understand u need money (don't we all) but u have to weigh it out.. and think to the future.. cos ur 100k or whatever u get will run out in 2 years.. then when u get dropped what will u do then..

when u get ur mainstream hits.. ur not helping the producers within the scene cos they aint makin ur beats.. ur not helping the dj's cos der not playing them songs, ur not helping any1 within the scene cos.. everything will be done by the label.. so ur leaving the power to the majors and BBC etc..

u might think impossible.. but look at Kiss FM, they were a pirate station.. westwood and all them DJ's and people involved back in that time built that station from scratch and built an audience from scratch and look where kiss fm is now..

nothing is impossible, just needs every wheel on the car to do it's jobs.. not just mc's releases.. every1.. and the scene should open up doors.. the wealth and hype is too closed doors and is distributed within a few.. so the system is already closing doors..

if u have to go mainstream make sure u make as much money as possible, and inject some of that into the scene..

BUT I'LL STOP HEREE.. opinions r welcome..

air when i'm ere

[Revolution]

i hate mix cds.
i feel ripped off after i buy each one.
theres very VERY few where i havent felt annoyed that i wasted 6/7 pounds on them.
i dont see or know what the diff is between a 'street album' and a mix cd tho - there isnt a diff as far as i can see, except ppl say its an album if its good, a mix cd if its not.

the gens album, even tho i only liked half of it was still better than most guys mix cds, cos it was done properly, and those songs were well made and produced/recorded. most mix cds arent.

id rather hear an mc put some time into doing an album or just released 12s cos face it most of these guys cant make albums, theyre only good at making a few songs here and there. nothing wrong with that but when i hear 70 mins with only 2 or 3 TOPS good songs on there, it seems like a waste of everyones time.
it also ruins their rep in a way cos they make you listen to so much shit material.
but i dont see this changing cos these artists have got no plan or clue about what to do/what theyre doing...
too much of a sheep mentality in grime...

mix cds are just a way to put some money in an artists pocket. nothing more/less.

its tru mc's need to up der levels esp with mixtapes

['nuum general]

mixtapes are important in simply showcasing the ability of the MC

radio can do that better imo

[Grimes]

wheres the p behind radio

are we talking about that once in a blue moon emcees get where they go on logans show as promotion for their mixtape

[Valhalla]

wheres the p behind radio

are we talking about that once in a blue moon emcees get where they go on logans show as promotion for their mixtape

only PRS enit, but they do get to promote their mixtape on logans

[Grimes]

only PRS enit, but they do get to promote their mixtape on logans

yh thats what i'm saying

When people go on logans show, its mainly as promotion for some sort of release however recently emcees have been going on for any reason under the sun.

ITS ABOUT P dawg

[Revolution]

radio can do that better imo

radio as well is important... u need to be able to do both in 09

[Valhalla]

yh thats what i'm saying

When people go on logans show, its mainly as promotion for some sort of release however recently emcees have been going on for any reason under the sun.

ITS ABOUT P dawg

thats all grime artists care about, which i suppose is fair enough

[Grimes]

thats all grime artists care about, which i suppose is fair enough

its not all they care about otherwise why would they be in this music in the first place.

Logan used to spout all talks about artists making money outta grime so they can do it full time etc and producing mixtapes seems to be best method for them.

[swiiing]

mix cds arent gonna die though.
thats just wishful thinking.
until something else comes around where artists know they can make money from it, even if its just a bit, they wont stop doing them.

i think grime mix cds are like a lot of dancehall releases tho- in the way a lot of dancehall artists just release loads and loads of material all the time, a lot of the time without any quality control, grime mcs do the same.
my main prob tho is that a lot of the time the 'diamonds in the rough' arent even there when you buy grime cds. :(

[leatherface]

still not dying from what i can see lol