Is It Harder 4 White MC's 2 Break Thru In Grime ?

[Lemz09]

My Bad If Dis Is A Cliche Thread !!
IMO It Is Harder 4 White Guys 2 Break Thru Doe .. No Racism.
Opinions ?

[THOR!]

No.

/Thread.

[Hij]

No.

/Thread.
.

[Jay]

Lemon gon be pissed atchoo.

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

white mcs just don't seem to be as good

few exceptions but "rapping" has always been a black talent

[Lemz09]

white mcs just don't seem to be as good

disagree

[Shadow]

No.

/Thread.

NOPE.. from time someone puts that in their head.. they'll mentally be saying to themselves there not good enough.. anyone can blow in dis ting.. just gotta be good..

if your good ur good..

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

disagree

there's nothing to disagree about

there isn't a white MC in Grimes top 10

[Wiz]

white mcs just don't seem to be as good

/thread

[JayStarz]

If anything, its the Asian/Arabic/Chinese rappers that get all the stick

Still, Lowkey >> all of grime.

[THOR!]

If anything, its the Asian/Arabic/Chinese rappers that get all the stick

Still, Lowkey >> all of grime.

blatant asian/victim.

[Lemz09]

Still, Lowkey >> all of grime.

True Doe

[Retrofreak]

Rhythm

[critic of musical arts]

white Mcs making commerial "grime" / pop have a much better chance tbh.

In the actual underground grime scene, maybe they aint taken as serious tbh.

[Quality Control]

white mcs just don't seem to be as good

tbh.

[No One Likes Frank]

there's nothing to disagree about

there isn't a white MC in Grimes top 10

As i white guy...I couldnt agree more.

[critic of musical arts]

If anything, its the Asian/Arabic/Chinese rappers that get all the stick

Still, Lowkey >> all of grime.

Wtf no way, in terms of flow and content Lowkey gets boring after a while. granted hes a deep rapper but still, plus this aint relevant to the thread, Lowkey aint white or grime.

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

we just can't flow properly

Devlin is an exception but he has a hard time keeping in time

[Retrofreak]

we just can't flow properly

Devlin is an exception but he has a hard time keeping in time

^^^Rhythm

[Wiz]

white Mcs making commerial "grime" / pop have a much better chance tbh.

In the actual underground grime scene, maybe they aint taken as serious tbh.
No

Dappy is good at what he does, he makes good music and that's why he's successful. Being white helps him to sell to all the white people that like him but he wouldn't have got as far as he has without being good.

I don't see that Jimmy Shoes kid anywhere

[nesta17]

if your rap is strong you cant go wrong

[Miyagi Dan]

its true, like if you see a white mc youve never heard of approach a mic you automatically expect him to be average/swag and are pleasantly suprised if he isn't

[Retrofreak]

I know his mixed race, but:

Rinse's flow>>>>>>>____

[Ryddel]

No.

/Thread.

.

[Quality Control]

tbh by being a white MC/rapper you're automatically handed a gimmick to work with

use it right and obviously have some talent you're laughing

[Lemz09]

All True, But Then Theres MCs Like Loudmouth, Who IMO Are Pretty Sick, Cant Knock His Workrate ... But Still Some Lesser Black MC's Recieve More Recognition ...

Stll True Say Loudmouth Aint Strickly Grime.............

[No One Likes Frank]

All True, But Then Theres MCs Like Loudmouth, Who IMO Are Pretty Sick, Cant Knock His Workrate ... But Still Some Lesser Black MC's Recieve More Recognition ...

Stll True Say Loudmouth Aint Strickly Grime.............

Loudmouth is a fantastic Rapper

[Miyagi Dan]

tbh by being a white MC/rapper you're automatically handed a gimmick to work with

use it right and obviously have some talent you're laughing

yh but still i cringe if i hear a white mc drop a bar about being white

[Tony Starks]

tbh by being a white MC/rapper you're automatically handed a gimmick to work with

use it right and obviously have some talent you're laughing
Obvious example in grime being Rinser

[Lemz09]

Obvious example in grime being Rinser

He Aint White Doe :dozey:

[Wiz]

Rinser ain't white?

Oh he's mixed

[Lemz09]

We're Talkin About 'RINSE' Right ?

[critic of musical arts]

No

Dappy is good at what he does, he makes good music and that's why he's successful. Being white helps him to sell to all the white people that like him but he wouldn't have got as far as he has without being good.

I don't see that Jimmy Shoes kid anywhere

SMH about No, i didnt say anything about being good or not. i didn't knock them guys making the pop type of grime.

All i basically said is that white mcs ain't as respected in the underground scene. If they was they wouldn't have to mention about 'being white' in their bars as it would be irrelevant. If dappy was properly in the grime scene people wouldn't take him seriously.

[THOR!]

I know his mixed race, but:

Rinse's flow>>>>>>>____

http://msrb.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/mushroom-cloud-hb.jpg

[Grimes]

it is harder.

[Wiz]

SMH about No, i didnt say anything about being good or not. i didn't knock them guys making the pop type of grime.

All i basically said is that white mcs ain't as respected in the underground scene. If they was they wouldn't have to mention about 'being white' in their bars as it would be irrelevant. If dappy was properly in the grime scene people wouldn't take him seriously.

You said

white Mcs making commerial "grime" / pop have a much better chance tbh.


Yet the current ratio or white to black of commercial MCs is like 1 to 6

[Dreamer]

No.

/Thread.


.

[Grimes]

if ur white in the uk and are associated with anything black your labelled a chav or a wigger

[THOR!]

if ur white in the uk and are associated with anything black your labelled a chav or a wigger

Unless you are good at it. Then you are 'refreshing' and 'unique'.

[Quality Control]

Yet the current ratio or white to black of commercial MCs is like 1 to 6

well there's not many white MC's full stop, so there's less chance of a prodigious white talent emerging, thus less white mc's becoming well known

[Wiz]

Innit, I've never heard someone call Scratchy a "Chav" or "Wigger"

[Tony Starks]

He Aint White Doe :dozey:
Whatever. He's tryna go the gimmicky "I'm a nerd...and I'm the non-threatening voice of grime" routine

Well it aint gonna run with me!

[THOR!]

Whatever. He's tryna go the gimmicky "I'm a nerd...and I'm the non-threatening voice of grime" routine

Well it aint gonna run with me!

You reckon he's secretly road?

[Retrofreak]

Devlin is sick though.

He just needs to become more liquid with the flows and find new cross rhythm's in the beats he spits on.

[E72]

Devlin, Little Dee >>>>

Just Sayin.

[Tony Starks]

You reckon he's secretly road?
Course not. He's just a regular guy but the nerd thing gives him sumfin to say

[Lemon]

Devlin, Little Dee, Scratchy >>>>

.

[THOR!]

Course not. He's just a regular guy but the nerd thing gives him sumfin to say

So you don't think he is a nerd?

[Retrofreak]

Devlin >>>>

Just Sayin.

Fixed:-D

[THOR!]

Devlin needs to jam the amount of syllables he uses in each bar.

[Tony Starks]

Devlin is finished imo
He peaked when he was fresh and made a good cd...and that's fair enough
But can't see him ever gettin back into my top 10

[THOR!]

Devlin is finished imo
He peaked when he was fresh and made a good cd...and that's fair enough
But can't see him ever gettin back into my top 10

I agree with everything except the good cd bit.

[Burden Durden]

Devlin is sick though.

He just needs to become more liquid with the flows and find new cross rhythm's in the beats he spits on.

the reason devlin sometime goes off beat is because his lyrics and bar structure are much more complex than many other mc's, not because he has no rhythm.

[THOR!]

the reason devlin sometime goes off beat is because his lyrics and bar structure are much more complex than many other mc's, not because he has no rhythm.

he has no rhythm and crams in too many syllables for him to handle.

[Retrofreak]

the reason devlin sometime goes off beat is because his lyrics and bar structure are much more complex than many other mc's, not because he has no rhythm.

Wrong!!!

His rhythm is not yet adequate to handle his attempted rhyme scheme.

There are many who pull this off successfully.

Dev's sometimes rushes and raps ahead of the beat..with practice he will get better.

[Carter]

Innit, I've never heard someone call Scratchy a "Chav" or "Wigger"

Its not harder for a white MC to break through in grime, acting like this is 8 Mile lol

Garage/Grime has always had white MCs, DJs and producers, the scene has been very mixed in that way from the start, its just that Dizzee blew and every black kid from a single parent home in the 'ghetto' decided they could to spit

Race has never been a issue for Scratchy, OT, Devlin or Lil Dee.......sure most of them mention it a lot but maybe thats because they aint very good song writers like this MIK monkey child

[Burden Durden]

he has no rhythm and crams in too many syllables for him to handle.

hes good on tunes

live sets yer maybe

but you can argue that thats what makes him good, the fact that he constructs difficult and wordy bars and still stays on beat the majority of the time.

he may be better suited to hip-hop though

[THOR!]

hes good on tunes

live sets yer maybe

but you can argue that thats what makes him good, the fact that he constructs difficult and wordy bars and still stays on beat the majority of the time.

he may be better suited to hip-hop though

I'm not a Devlin fan.

[Carter]

the reason devlin sometime goes off beat is because his lyrics and bar structure are much more complex than many other mc's, not because he has no rhythm.

:stunned:

So he is off beat because he is sooooo complex and structured!?!?

WTF...........

[Wiz]

lol @ being structured yet off beat
he obviously doesn't know how to structure his bars if he's off beat

[Burden Durden]

:stunned:

So he is off beat because he is sooooo complex and structured!?!?

WTF...........

bar structure meaning how many words you fit into one bar,

therefore making it harder to flow at 140 bpm because of more words and syllables in that bar.......................also making them more complex

simple really

[Nalkin]

tbh by being a white MC/rapper you're automatically handed a gimmick to work with

use it right and obviously have some talent you're laughing

Very true. I think that in some ways it is easier for white MC's because of the gimmick that they can play. They can use the whole "White MC" To get noticed, where as with the black MC's there bare of them so obviously it will be harder to stand out.

And about the top 10 thing, obviously if there is more black MC's there will be more of a chance of them filling up spots. IMO Devlin should be up there but obviously ill have people that disagree with me. Staying on subject, yeah in certain ways its easier, some its harder.

[Grimes]

ur talking about man from the radio eras.

[Wiz]

bar structure meaning how many words you fit into one bar,

therefore making it harder to flow at 140 bpm because of more words and syllables in that bar.......................also making them more complex

simple really
that's silly, if he can't keep up with his own lyrics he's doing something wrong

you can't make excuses for not being able to drop your own bars on time

[Zink18]

Devlins top 5 man....
some1 sed it alredy/...if ur good ur good....dnt matter what colour....

[S.Dubz]

they aint very good song writers like this MIK monkey child

This a send to MIK the mc?

[Carter]

This a send to MIK the mc?

What makes you think that!?!?! :dozey:

[Burden Durden]

that's silly, if he can't keep up with his own lyrics he's doing something wrong

you can't make excuses for not being able to drop your own bars on time

are his bar structures more complex than many other mc's???? yes

as a result of this are they gonna be harder to spit at 140bpm???? yes

occasionally he goes off-beat, does that mean he has no rhythm??? no way, coz hes spitting more complex bars


that was my original point

maybe he is doing something wrong, but you cant't deny that when he is on beat he is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

['nuum general]

bar structure meaning how many words you fit into one bar,

therefore making it harder to flow at 140 bpm because of more words and syllables in that bar.......................also making them more complex

simple really

since when does quantity relate to complexity?

its not just how many, its how you sit them in the bar, the tone & emphasis you put on each syllable also

[S.Dubz]

Wait it seems Carter/Enigma is no longer an "undercover racist"

But an actual racist.

[Carter]

Wait it seems Carter/Enigma is no longer an "undercover racist"

But an actual racist.

Shit..............you got me!!!!!!!!!!!







































































http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/5242/americanhistory.jpg (http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=americanhistory.jpg)

[Quality Control]

are his bar structures more complex than many other mc's???? yes

as a result of this are they gonna be harder to spit at 140bpm???? yes

occasionally he goes off-beat, does that mean he has no rhythm??? no way, coz hes spitting more complex bars


that was my original point

maybe he is doing something wrong, but you cant't deny that when he is on beat he is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

you're chatting rubbish bruh

Devlin's bar structure is terrible BECAUSE of his so-called "complexity" (if complexity means jamming long words into bars for the sake of it, regardless of context)

he's very robotic and lifeless too

[Wiz]

are his bar structures more complex than many other mc's???? yes

as a result of this are they gonna be harder to spit at 140bpm???? yes

occasionally he goes off-beat, does that mean he has no rhythm??? no way, coz hes spitting more complex bars


that was my original point

maybe he is doing something wrong, but you cant't deny that when he is on beat he is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
he's not complex, he just says a lot

he's hardly ever on time, in fact he doesn't even drop his bars on the first beat 90% of the time which makes every single track sound like a freestyle

[Too Far Gone]

Not really if your good enough you'll get the recognition.

[fuk off]

there's nothing to disagree about

there isn't a white MC in Grimes top 10

Devlin?
Anyway all this race talk is air this aint america every1's in the music together not like U.S

[Quality Control]

Anyway all this race talk is air this aint america every1's in the music together not like U.S

yeah, like Carter said, this ain't Detroit and this ain't 8 Mile

Britain's working class is far more integrated racially than the US's

[fuk off]

yeah, like Carter said, this ain't Detroit and this ain't 8 Mile

Britain's working class is far more integrated racially than the US's

Real Talk

[Burden Durden]

since when does quantity relate to complexity?

its not just how many, its how you sit them in the bar, the tone & emphasis you put on each syllable also


the fact that you used 'its not just' to start your second sentence suggests that you also believe quantity relates to complexity to some degree, therefore answering your own question.

[Tony Starks]

Hate tryin to reason with devlin fanboys

They just can't see past his thesauras flow and refuse to hear anyfin else. Smh

[S.Dubz]

Racist wigger ITT

shits funny :laugh:

[RIP Jakey]

Little Dee>>>>Devlin for me cos i aint look for a million words in a bar

[Quality Control]

Hate tryin to reason with devlin fanboys

They just can't see past his thesauras flow and refuse to hear anyfin else. Smh

the only guys that appreciate that are guys who've never encountered a word with more than 3 syllables before

[Shanger]

Devlin needs to jam the amount of syllables he uses in each bar.

ahah

theres exceptions like devlin n imo shak

but neither of them are top 10. shak has lotta potential.

[S.Dubz]

Devlin is sick for someone who's pigmently challenged.

He does have an unusual flow though and his content at times is all too similar.

[Rhymes.]

confidence

some are scared to get parred if they say a wrong word

if some white mc said "blud" i know that ppl would be like, whos this wigger? if he said "bruv" then he would feel like a pub folk in dagenham

[Retrofreak]

He does have an unusual flow though and his content at times is all too similar.

^^^

[Shanger]

voices play a part as well. most time grime suits the ghetto deepish voice, which tends to be black ppl more than whites/asians.

[Rhymes.]

some white mc called star9 sent for Shizz because they were white. it was all about the best young white mc in grime, so people will just look past it thinkin that there just sendin for attention, cah you wouldnt see ghetto or dot sendin for eachother sayin im the best black mc.

[Retrofreak]

,
voices play a part as well. most time grime suits the ghetto deepish voice, which tends to be black ppl more than whites/asians.

Ghetto's a voice isn't low if anything it's high until he starts growling.

Devlin's voice is not squeaky like Pro Green and Little D.

[Carter]

Racist wigger ITT

shits funny :laugh:

http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g198/Twisted_Gremlin/american_history_x_11.jpg

[Shanger]

ghetto, n even p money have voices alittle high but still has a street sound to it

more time, asians sound forced when they try soundin road

and white guys come across like pub guys or wiggers.

devlins voice is ok but sometimes he sounds like a bitch

[Brutes]

No

[fuk off]

the only guys that appreciate that are guys who've never encountered a word with more than 3 syllables before
Qft

,

Ghetto's a voice isn't low if anything it's high until he starts growling.

Devlin's voice is not squeaky like Pro Green and Little D.
Exactly

ghetto, n even p money have voices alittle high but still has a street sound to it

more time, asians sound forced when they try soundin road

and white guys come across like pub guys or wiggers.

devlins voice is ok but sometimes he sounds like a bitch
So if your white + spit your either a pub guy or a wigger lol lost
As I said this aint america wake up fam were all working class

[Equilibrium]

no.

if u are a good white mc, you can easily become established in grime.

[Shanger]

Qft

Exactly

So if your white + spit your either a pub guy or a wigger lol lost
As I said this aint america wake up fam were all working class

key words, MORE TIME they SOUND like tht. learn to read speng

[Brutes]

no.

if u are a good white mc, you can easily become established in grime.

Colour is irrelevant, if your good enough white black brown yellow purple(big up aki)n/h.. doesnt matter

[fuk off]

key words, MORE TIME they SOUND like tht. learn to read speng

Where did you say "sound" cos I read




and white guys come across like pub guys or wiggers.

devlins voice is ok but sometimes he sounds like a bitch
Thats a bit differnt to sound you speng

[Rhymes.]

ghetto, n even p money have voices alittle high but still has a street sound to it

more time, asians sound forced when they try soundin road

and white guys come across like pub guys or wiggers.

devlins voice is ok but sometimes he sounds like a bitch

THATS THE REASON WHY WHITE GUYS DONT WANA SPIT. coz them type of comments dont give them confidence, i wouldnt wanna make a track and be called a wigger, but real talk, smart kids voice pisses me off, ill give you that. wolf has got sum fucked voice.

[Shanger]

ok then

well "come across" still dont = ARE.

[Shanger]

THATS THE REASON WHY WHITE MC'S DONT SPIT. coz them type of comments dont give them confidence, i wouldnt wanna make a track and be called a wigger, but real talk, smart kids voice pisses me off, ill give you that. wolf has got sum fucked voice.

a black boy with a bitch voice would face the same problems

[Retrofreak]

Rhythm.

[fuk off]

a black boy with a bitch voice would face the same problems

like chipmunk? Swear I've heard birds with deeper voices

[Equilibrium]

Colour is irrelevant, if your good enough white black brown yellow purple(big up aki)n/h.. doesnt matter

ders more politics wit the black mcs but if ur a good white mc guaranteed someone like wiley will push u to up ur status.

[S.Dubz]

a black boy with a bitch voice would face the same problems

Ice Kid used to have a bitch voice though and he never got parred off.

But true say he is mixed.

[Shanger]

like chipmunk? Swear I've heard birds with deeper voices

yeh like him.

i cant stand pre puberty voices like his, ice kids etc

['nuum general]

Rhythm.

I think your being too indirect & subtle

[Retrofreak]

I think your being too indirect & subtle

lol

[Rhymes.]

Ice Kid used to have a bitch voice though and he never got parred off.

But true say he is mixed.

lol someone told me it suits him

[Quality Control]

Rhythm.


I think your being too indirect & subtle

i don't get it

someone help me decipher this cryptic riddle

[S.Dubz]

lol someone told me it suits him

Yeah it kinda did n/h

He sounds more grown now anyway.

[Brutes]

Ok the answer is no.

If a mc who is not black thinks that hes skin is holding him back hes deluded & probably shit.

[fuk off]

Ok the answer is no.

If a mc who is not black thinks that hes skin is holding him back hes deluded & probably shit.

qft

[Rhymes.]

alieeeee, low bein ashamed of your skin colour, that makes you more fake than people will think your are

[fuk off]

alieeeee, low bein ashamed of your skin colour, that makes you more fake than people will think your are

qft

[Wiz]

No one's feeling ashamed of their skin colour. He thinks that people see him as different to black people because he is white. Which is fair enough, because it's a very obvious difference.

I think you'll find most of the time that most of the white MCs that are highly rated don't sound white.

[The Don]

haven't read the thread. but saw the title and my planned reply was a resounding;


No.

/Thread.

[Millano]

white mcs just don't seem to be as good

few exceptions but "rapping" has always been a black talent

Maybe theres more black heads trying to be mc's than white heads ?

[Eklipse]

white Mcs making commerial "grime" / pop have a much better chance tbh.

In the actual underground grime scene, maybe they aint taken as serious tbh.

defo... look at that jimmy shoe bullshit... if ghetto did that he'd get parred
And the amount of white mcs is less so they kind of stand out... "yhyh i've heard of devlin, the white yout from dagenham init"

[Retrofreak]

Maybe theres more black heads trying to be mc's than white heads ?

Maybe it's because "Rhythm" comes naturally to most black people and you need good timing to ride Grime.

[Kay Mizan UKM]

It's about talent not colour.

[Grimes]

idealism ITT. Race pervades nearly aspect in society.

its a double edged sword, if ur white u got a gimmick, if ur black ur more likely to be accepted but on the other hand if ur white ur just a gimmick and if ur black u have more ed's 2 compete with in the scene.

[dw202]

I wish race wasn't an issue, but I think it plays a small role. I think it is harder for non Afro-Carrabians to get big in the scene. I don't think theres anything directly racist about it, its more indirect. Saying that if you've got real talent you should blow.

But for me UK MC's(not just grime) like Loudmouth, L Dot Man and Devlin are much better than MC's like Dot Rotton, Giggs, Griminal. If you want to be a white MC I think your standard has to be higher than if your black. How you are rated is based on people's opinions and perceptions and if your white you are automatically looked down upon slightly.

Just think would a white version of like Tempz get as big? As he is someone who basically creates hype by shouting about injurying people.

Would a white version of Jammer get very far? Would a white lethal get to the charts?
There answer in my opinion is NO! They would be laughed off stage. I like Jammer, Tempz and lethal but a white version wouldn't work. So I think its harder to break through if your white as you are limited to the style of your music and content.

[Trauma_brum]

i think if ur sick u will get rated still, shifty from manny is white and hes got manny on smash lol

[Ro-Man Roader]

there's nothing to disagree about

there isn't a white MC in Grimes top 10
lol your mad! Devlin & Shifty have more lyrical talent than most guys in the scene

[Ro-Man Roader]

there's nothing to disagree about

there isn't a white MC in Grimes top 10
I'm interested in knowing what your top 10 is....

[unkle]

*walks in thread* Meh! *walks out wondering why*

[SPLERT]

devlin dogzilla and scratchy have no problems they are established artist who we all no...
race shouldnt be a thing its wether your talented...
dogzilla already stated on logan sama that his the worst wiger lol which i thought was funny but he will act and talk white and show it in his music devlin does the same ive heard devlin live and i thought he was well off beat but then i heard the same bars on a trak and there was nothing wrong with them it might just be the actuall beat that makes him sound off beat ...

[Shanger]

I wish race wasn't an issue, but I think it plays a small role. I think it is harder for non Afro-Carrabians to get big in the scene. I don't think theres anything directly racist about it, its more indirect. Saying that if you've got real talent you should blow.

But for me UK MC's(not just grime) like Loudmouth, L Dot Man and Devlin are much better than MC's like Dot Rotton, Giggs, Griminal. If you want to be a white MC I think your standard has to be higher than if your black. How you are rated is based on people's opinions and perceptions and if your white you are automatically looked down upon slightly.

Just think would a white version of like Tempz get as big? As he is someone who basically creates hype by shouting about injurying people.

Would a white version of Jammer get very far? Would a white lethal get to the charts?
There answer in my opinion is NO! They would be laughed off stage. I like Jammer, Tempz and lethal but a white version wouldn't work. So I think its harder to break through if your white as you are limited to the style of your music and content.

tempz power lies in the high top not the skin colour

[Shanger]

I'm interested in knowing what your top 10 is....

kno its not directed at me but u could say

ghetto
scorcher
wiley
dot rotten
p money
black the ripper
frisco
griminal
tempz
goodz

all better than any white mc in grime

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

Just think would a white version of like Tempz get as big? As he is someone who basically creates hype by shouting about injurying people.


There IS a white version of Tempz... Discarda.

To be honest if he kept at it he'd probably be a lot more recognised by now


lol your mad! Devlin & Shifty have more lyrical talent than most guys in the scene

:lol: going to rhymezone.com and picking the words with 5 syllables doesn't count as lyrical ability

i've never even listened to a Shifty tune so he's clearly irrelevant


I'm interested in knowing what your top 10 is....

all time?

Wiley,
Dizzee,
D Double E,
Durrty Goodz,
Big H,
Kano,
Ghetto,
Dot Rotten,
Trim,
Skepta

loosely in order

[unkle]

There is no need to put it down to race (yes I am back in the thread!...lol) if your good your good regardless..I don't like threads like this tbh...

I have never thought any different about Scratch or devlin...they just both big MC's white black red yellow.....

If you got the talent it doesn't matter...

[unkle]

No.

/Thread.

oh and...


.

[Quality Control]

There IS a white version of Tempz... Discarda.

To be honest if he kept at it he'd probably be a lot more recognised by now

was just about to say this till i saw you got there first

[Grimes]

Tempz and Discarda are not very similar tbh.

[Quality Control]

Tempz and Discarda are not very similar tbh.

it was more the "someone who basically creates hype by shouting about injurying people."

[Logik]

I wish race wasn't an issue, but I think it plays a small role. I think it is harder for non Afro-Carrabians to get big in the scene. I don't think theres anything directly racist about it, its more indirect. Saying that if you've got real talent you should blow.

But for me UK MC's(not just grime) like Loudmouth, L Dot Man and Devlin are much better than MC's like Dot Rotton, Giggs, Griminal. If you want to be a white MC I think your standard has to be higher than if your black. How you are rated is based on people's opinions and perceptions and if your white you are automatically looked down upon slightly.

Just think would a white version of like Tempz get as big? As he is someone who basically creates hype by shouting about injurying people.

Would a white version of Jammer get very far? Would a white lethal get to the charts?
There answer in my opinion is NO! They would be laughed off stage. I like Jammer, Tempz and lethal but a white version wouldn't work. So I think its harder to break through if your white as you are limited to the style of your music and content.
Hit the nail on the head imo.

[fedfaced]

devlin wld bea sick jungle mc

[unkle]

Hit the nail on the head imo.

no...

[Ro-Man Roader]

Thats more like an all time top 10...

Dizzee & Kano ain't Grime anymore... Big H ain't done shit, Skepta's shit now...

And to say Devlin writes from Rhymezome.com or whatever shows that you don't listen to him properly, maybe the reason white MC's find it hard to break through is cause people don't give them a chance and listen to them enough, cause IMO white MC's are just as good if not better than all other MC's in what ever scene they are in.

[nesta17]

shifty + l dot man.

[Rhymes.]

i said it once an ill say it again..... confidence

[Grimes]

people are mentioning gimmicks and exceptions like they refute the premise of the thread.

['nuum general]

devlin wld bea sick jungle mc

no he wouldn't as DnB/Jungle is all about flow & stage presence. Two ereas where devlin is weak

[Millano]

Maybe it's because "Rhythm" comes naturally to most black people and you need good timing to ride Grime.

Lol practice makes perfect. More black people will practice grime than white. its nothing about natural riddim. Cause your black. What is black first of all define. Anyone with dark skin ? Africans what ?

[Retrofreak]

Lol practice makes perfect. More black people will practice grime than white. its nothing about natural riddim. Cause your black. What is black first of all define. Anyone with dark skin ? Africans what ?

Yes you can practice no doubt, but rhythm comes naturally to people of african and asian decent.

You can see it in dancing, as good as Justin Timberlake is, he'll never be as natural with timing as Usher or Chris brown...his stiff and dances ahead of the beat (not in the groove/pocket).

Dancing and spitting are the same, they both call for percussive manipulation.


If you have timing down from early it's one less hurdle to master, so you can breath properly and concentrate on other elements of your spitting.


I dont know if it's nature or nurture, but most black people have good timing and muscle reflexes.

Running
Boxing
Dancing
Spitting

All benifit from Rhythm...go figure.

[Millano]

Yes you can practice no doubt, but rhythm comes naturally to people of african and asian decent.

You can see it in dancing, as good as Justin Timberlake is, he'll never be as natural with timing as Usher or Chris brown...his stiff.

Dancing and spitting are the same, they both call for percussive manipulation.


If you have timing down from early it's one less hurdle to master, so you can breath properly and concentrate on other elements of your spitting.


I dont know if it's nature or nurture, but most black people have good timing and muscle reflexes.

Running
Boxing
Dancing
Spitting

All benifit from rhythm...go figure.

Lol ill say again practice makes perfect, Nothing about skin colour, thats just pure assumption. There is Genes, but it is not confined to a selcet group of people the better your genes the easier it is doesnt mean you dont have to work hard.

That good timing stuff is air as well. How about tennis, Rugby, cricket. Why there not many black people there ? BECAUSE more white people will tend to pratcice it which will make them appear to be better. When in reality they may not be.

[Retrofreak]

Lol ill say again practice makes perfect, Nothing about skin colour, thats just pure assumption. There is Genes, but it is not confined to a selcet group of people the better your genes the easier it is doesnt mean you dont have to work hard.

That good timing stuff is air as well. How about tennis, Rugby, cricket. Why there not many black people there ? BECAUSE more white people will tend to pratcice it which will make them appear to be better. When in reality they may not be.

Nah bruv,

Any of the sports you mentioned could be dominated by a person of colour...lets not go there.



Ok..... in UK (Back Packer)Hip Hop name the white MC's with exceptional timing???
















I'll wait.

[THOR!]

Yes you can practice no doubt, but rhythm comes naturally to people of african and asian decent.

You can see it in dancing, as good as Justin Timberlake is, he'll never be as natural with timing as Usher or Chris brown...his stiff and dances ahead of the beat (not in the groove/pocket).

Dancing and spitting are the same, they both call for percussive manipulation.


If you have timing down from early it's one less hurdle to master, so you can breath properly and concentrate on other elements of your spitting.


I dont know if it's nature or nurture, but most black people have good timing and muscle reflexes.

Running
Boxing
Dancing
Spitting

All benifit from Rhythm...go figure.

More culture than colour imo.
Nurture.

[Millano]

Nah bruv,

Any of the sports you mentioned could be dominated by a person of colour...lets not go there.



Ok..... in UK (Back Packer)Hip Hop name the white MC's with exceptional timing???
















I'll wait.

Thats the point could. Same with white people they could dominate grime. But its unilkely becuase less people would tend to PRACTICE it. Same as black people PRACTICING tennis.

[Retrofreak]

More culture than colour imo.
Nurture.

Yeah possibly as I've seen it with Kids as young as 2 that can dance on time and everything.

[Retrofreak]

Thats the point could. Same with white people they could dominate grime. But its unilkely becuase less people would tend to PRACTICE it. Same as black people PRACTICING tennis.

The sports your mentioning where very classist at some point or another..still.

Lets put it this way...

Undoubtedly Eminem has the best timing i've every heard from a white MC, but he still looks awkward boping to music in Video's and is not as fluid with his timing as Jay-Z.

[Logik]

It's definately nurture. Anyone can spit sick if they practise for long enough but how many white people get brought up listening to Dancehall and Hip-Hop from a young age?

[Millano]

The sports your mentioning where very classist at some point or another..still.

Lets put it this way...

Undoubtedly Eminem has the best timing i've every heard from a white MC, but he still looks awkward boping to music in Video's and is not as fluid with his timing as Jay-Z.

He look awkard BECAUSE he is the minority. Anyone looks dodgy if they are a minority thus making it harder for other minoriotes to get into whatever.

[Millano]

It's definately nurture. Anyone can spit sick if they practise for long enough but how many white people get brought up listening to Dancehall and Hip-Hop from a young age?

True same way not many black heads in england anyway get brought up listeing to rock/electro etc hence not many in the game. Does it mean they any worse tho ?

[Retrofreak]

It's definately nurture. Anyone can spit sick if they practise for long enough but how many white people get brought up listening to Dancehall and Hip-Hop from a young age?

Maybe..dont know.

I can her it in Hip Hop DJ's fro example.

When you hear most white DJ's scratching at the DMC they have technical patterns, but lack the natural groove and musicality of say a DJ Premier.

There's staying on beat = Tempo and there's staying in the groove = Swing.

Somethings can be improved upon, but you either have it or you dont imo.

[Retrofreak]

He look awkard BECAUSE he is the minority. Anyone looks dodgy if they are a minority thus making it harder for other minoriotes to get into whatever.

No.


He looks awkward cause his thinking about the beat instead of feeling it.

You dont analyze rhythm, you simply feel it and respond.

[Millano]

No.


He looks awkward cause his thinking about the beat instead of feeling it.

You dont analyze rhythm, you simply feel it and respond.

Ok tell me rappers that are better than Em. I knwo for a fact not many are. He is amongst the best and he is white nothing held him back. He just worked bloody hard and had some talent. Same as all the other black rappers.

[Retrofreak]

Ok tell me rappers that are better than Em. I knwo for a fact not many are. He is amongst the best and he is white nothing held him back. He just worked bloody hard and had some talent. Same as all the other black rappers.

You've brought the wrong argument to the wrong person as I'm an EMINEM fan,
But I'd be lying if I said that he's got the best timing..he did progress immensely between the first two albums and continues to push boundaries lyrically.

I'd say his easily one of the best wordsmiths in Hip Hop ever, but rhythm is something many black MC's have on lock as standard, they don't work on it cause it's natural.

I know this may hit a nerve, I'm not trying to make this a race thing, but it's a fact.

[Nokia]

I'm white myself, but there isn't a single white MC/rapper in grime or hip hop I like.
(Eminem is the only exception to this rule)
Devlin is shit, don't rate scratchy, i'd rather hear JME any day.


(And is also a contributing reason as to why I like Eminem so much. He's doing something that does not come naturally to his race, spitting/rapping and ryhthm. Yet he can stand toe-to-toe with ANYONE in hip-hop). We'll never get another Marshall Mathers!

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

i should have probably made clear i'm white to hammer home the argument even further

this isn't some "big up your own race" thread

[Revolution]

To say a whole group izn't as good as another group of people, at Mc'ing becoz of their color is air...

It is harder 4 white MC's to break thru, of course, coz its a predominatly black scene, and a prodominantly black culture....

[One_and_only]

If anything, its the Asian/Arabic/Chinese rappers that get all the stick

Still, Lowkey >> all of grime.



Thats because we are not RESPECTED in their countries, yet despite all the past problems blacks and whites have had. We have been accepted to an extent in this country etc...

[Nokia]

To say a whole group izn't as good as another group of people, at Mc'ing becoz of their color is air...


No it's not.

If you named THE BEST white rappers of all time, in comparison with....
a few average black rappers, and a few brilliant black rappers

Then the 'white' list would be laughable tbh.

The only thing that is on a level-playing field for everyone is LYRICS.
Anyone can write good lyrics, regardless of colour.
But as far as spitting goes, flowing and sounding good then it's a black thing culturally

[madness]

Most white Mc's don't seem as on it as the well known blacks.

There are bare blacks in the same position as the whites all of whom are talented but there are bare shit white an black mc's in the same position 2 lol.

[Revolution]

No it's not.

If you named THE BEST white rappers of all time, in comparison with....
a few average black rappers, and a few brilliant black rappers

Then the 'white' list would be laughable tbh.

The only thing that is on a level-playing field for everyone is LYRICS.
Anyone can write good lyrics, regardless of colour.
But as far as spitting goes, flowing and sounding good then it's a black thing culturally

No way... der arent as many white rappers out der 4 1... so therefore da white rappers 2 choose from are slim pickings, seeing as there are like 100times mor black rappers

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

i find it funny that the 2 Djs pushing grime the furthest are both White

[Nokia]

No way... der arent as many white rappers out der 4 1... so therefore da white rappers 2 choose from are slim pickings, seeing as there are like 100times mor black rappers

Ask yourself why?
Because the majority of the time they are COMPLETE TRASH.

The ones that are half-decent are easily forgettable **cough**DEVLIN, and are country-miles apart from their black counter-parts.

There are probably as many, if not more WHITE people who "attempt" to rap, and fail miserably

[fuk off]

Ask yourself why?
Because the majority of the time they are COMPLETE TRASH.

The ones that are half-decent are easily forgettable **cough**DEVLIN, and are country-miles apart from their black counter-parts.

There are probably as many, if not more WHITE people who "attempt" to rap, and fail miserably

Are you mad?? Scratchy , Devlin , Syer B, Dogzy,L,Dot Man Brutality, Little Dee + Deeperman are all fucked

[Nokia]

Are you mad?? Scratchy , Devlin , Syer B, Dogzy,L,Dot Man Brutality, Little Dee + Deeperman are all fucked

:laugh::laugh:

I can't take that as a serious comment when you said Dogzy and "fucked" in the same sentence. You sure ??

He's absoloutely shambolic IMO, can't take him seriously everything I have heard off him has been complete trash - I mean look at the state of him on this vid

zv25_PpOzd0

ANYWAY...

Comparing those mc's to man like Wiley, Ghetts, Tempz, Griminal, Dot Rotten etc etc, there is no contest.

[fuk off]

:laugh::laugh:

I can't take that as a serious comment when you said Dogzy and "fucked" in the same sentence. You sure ??

He's absoloutely shambolic IMO, can't take him seriously everything I have heard off him has been complete trash - I mean look at the state of him on this vid

zv25_PpOzd0

But how can you compare to man like Wiley, Ghetts, Tempz, Griminal, Dot Rotten etc etc, there is no contest.

Smh wh yjudge on one vid every1 was drinkin then it aint his best but he's been constiantly fucked for years thats like sayin cos a footballer has one off game he's swag when really he's alot Dogzy's done more in the game than you could ever dream of fam

[Nokia]

Smh wh yjudge on one vid every1 was drinkin then it aint his best but he's been constiantly fucked for years thats like sayin cos a footballer has one off game he's swag when really he's alot Dogzy's done more in the game than you could ever dream of fam

Fair enough he has - thats because I've got no aspirations to be a grime mc as I fundamentally haven't got what it takes.

However I'm still qualified to have my opinion - and my opinion is I don't rate him

[GrimmyGrimGrim]

Deeperman is terrible

Dogzilla is a very good mc imo

[Retrofreak]

lol Dollars off beat.

Dogzilla is half way skanking and not in the beat at all.

Devz is in the rhythm then drifts off a tad...his sick though>>>

Look how Ghetts and Grims are "in" the beat even when their not spitting (rhythm).

[Swizzee Star]

Theres Alot Of Shit White Mc's
Theres Alot Of Shit Black Mc's


Shitness Is Colourless

[Nine Bar]

@ Retro all youve said is "Rhythm" through the whole thread.

You need more then rhythm no matter what colour you are.

Imo it dont matter what colour you are or what you look like, if your good your good you will get noticed sooner or later.

[Retrofreak]

@ Retro all youve said is "Rhythm" through the whole thread.

You need more then rhythm no matter what colour you are.

Imo it dont matter what colour you are or what you look like, if your good your good you will get noticed sooner or later.

if you've checked my post you'll see that I've explained it carefully.

Grime is fast past and Rhythmic, unless your spitting like Trim you need good timing.

Percussion is one of the corner stone's of dance music..fact.

These are components that make up great MC's and be it by way of culture or gene's rhythm comes naturally to most black people.

[CHUCK.]

It's not harder, look at Devlin. The problem is with quality. I mean, how many good white mc's can you think of off the top of your head (Some dude from Norwood called Vesper, Brutes from GC, Devlin and Deepa are mine ) and then how many good black ones?

My two cents anyway.

[tevin17]

Lets change the subject who makes the best jazz music?

[Retrofreak]

Lets change the subject who makes the best jazz music?

What type of Jazz you on about? lol

[Grimes]

do people actually believe these ideals "if ur good, ull get spotted/noticed sooner or later"

this is bullshit.

grime is one of the most insular music scenes.

So many good emcees out there, that will never get anywhere not only because their asian/white but also because where there from.

[tevin17]

rhythm comes naturally to most black people.
.

[tevin17]

What type of Jazz you on about? lol

Swing lol

It would be the same argument

rhythm.

[Retrofreak]

Swing lol

lol..

Dun know.

[Jack Man Everyday Blatant]

There's more black MC's/Rappers than white/asian MC's/Rappers.

Grime/Hip Hop was invented by black people.

similarly there's more white rock bands than black bands

Rock is listened to and was invented by white people, even if it wasn't invented by white people it is certainly listened to by white people more than blacks/asians.

Its just got to do with numbers and peoples taste etc, you cant say black people have rhythm and white people don't as different people have different abilities.

[tevin17]

you cant say black people have rhythm and white people dont
in the same way you cant say black people are fast runners than white people are slow
its just the best mc's are black like the fastest runners are

[Retrofreak]

There's more black MC's/Rappers than white/asian MC's/Rappers.

Grime/Hip Hop was invented by black people.

similarly there's more white rock bands than black bands

Rock is listened to and enjoyed by white people, even if it wasn't invented by white people it is certainly listened to by white people more than blacks/asians.

Its just got to do with numbers and peoples taste etc, you cant say black people have rhythm and white people don't as different people have different abilities.

Edit:-D


I'd never say white people have no rhythm, i'd say on a whole it's different.

Asians have a different feel on their music also and they have an incredible sense of timing.

You can take a white girl that's grown up around black music all her life, but I doubt she'll ever have natural timing like Michael Jackson or Beyonce.

Case in point Christina Aguiler and Pink are both exceptional technical singers, but lack the rhythm of a Brandy or Beyonce.

[Nine Bar]

do people actually believe these ideals "if ur good, ull get spotted/noticed sooner or later"

this is bullshit.

grime is one of the most insular music scenes.

So many good emcees out there, that will never get anywhere not only because their asian/white but also because where there from.

I do belive it to an extent, but agree theres thousands of artists from all scenes that will never get their foot in the door for some reasons. But in Grime where people in London wont recognise good emcees from out of town, their still doing their thing all over the rest of the UK. Vader is a prime example.

[Nine Bar]

And yeh Retro I agree, rhythm comes naturally to black folks in Grime. Notice how all the white mc's have very different flows. But I still rate Little Dee and Devs very highly.

[Grimes]

There's more black MC's/Rappers than white/asian MC's/Rappers.

Grime/Hip Hop was invented by black people.

similarly there's more white rock bands than black bands

Rock is listened to and was invented by white people, even if it wasn't invented by white people it is certainly listened to by white people more than blacks/asians.



I don't see ur point fam.

[Retrofreak]

And yeh Retro I agree, rhythm comes naturally to black folks in Grime. Notice how all the white mc's have very different flows. But I still rate Little Dee and Devs very highly.

Yeah their both talented and Devs is a personal favorite of mine.

He had one of the best verse's on Top 3 selected imo

[Birdman]

devlin is a better rapper than most of the grime scene

[Revolution]

Ask yourself why?
Because the majority of the time they are COMPLETE TRASH.

The ones that are half-decent are easily forgettable **cough**DEVLIN, and are country-miles apart from their black counter-parts.

There are probably as many, if not more WHITE people who "attempt" to rap, and fail miserably

No, no, no... It's becoz it is a BLACK culture...

It's like sayin y r der no black indie bands, or, r black indie shit (of course becoz black people make up da minority in UK anywayz, ders evenmore slim pickings).


Nufink to do wif da color of da skin in terms of ability its 2 do wif da culture as a whole...

In terms of white mc's beaking thru its very difficult bcoz of da cultural aspect

[Retrofreak]

devlin is a better rapper than most of the grime scene

.

[Nine Bar]

I loved off Devlin before tbh, but since Tales Of The Crypt I dont think hes progressed anymore, the one flo is now starting to piss me off also.

Little Dee could be the man to fuck up this year if he brings out a solid CD.

Rinse could also fuck it up couldnt he Retro, again its the work rate thing.

[Revolution]

Ye devlins flow dus get abit anoyin afta a while, but he's still a sik mc, if he progresses wif age, he'll b 1 2 look out 4

[Nine Bar]

Ye devlins flow dus get abit anoyin afta a while, but he's still a sik mc, if he progresses wif age, he'll b 1 2 look out 4

Lol he aint 16/17 no more mate. Them one to look out for days are over, he made a very good CD but now I think hes fallen under that catagory where he cant better that CD. Hes also gone very shit on sets imo.

Still like him alot thoguh

[Retrofreak]

No, no, no... It's becoz it is a BLACK culture...

It's like sayin y r der no black indie bands, or, r black indie shit (of course becoz black people make up da minority in UK anywayz, ders evenmore slim pickings).


Nufink to do wif da color of da skin in terms of ability its 2 do wif da culture as a whole...

In terms of white mc's beaking thru its very difficult bcoz of da cultural aspect

^^^True, but surely it must have started out somehow before it became a culture?

Some dude in Africa would've created a drum out of necessity...rhythm starts from within, not from a drum lol.

[Revolution]

^^^True, but surely it must have started out somehow before it became a culture?

Some dude in Africa would've created a drum out of necessity...rhythm starts from within, not from a drum lol.

I wud say grime is a reflection of the culture in the first place, and dats how it startd, however i do take ur point, dat musically it mustta cum from sumwhere, and i'd say it came from garage, b4 dat jungle...u get me?

[The Don]

Lol he aint 16/17 no more mate. Them one to look out for days are over, he made a very good CD but now I think hes fallen under that catagory where he cant better that CD. Hes also gone very shit on sets imo.

Still like him alot thoguh

this. that "younger" tag can really make mc's seem it you know lol. i sometimes forget he's only like a year off pmoney and rotten cos they've never been presented as "youngers" really.

[Mister Lacey]

lol fucking garbage.

[Grimes]

devlin must be atleast 20

[Mister Lacey]

I was gonna make music but then someone put a mirror in front of me and said "look at yourself, you're pale go home".

[Quality Control]

I was gonna make music but then someone put a mirror in front of me and said "look at yourself, you're pale go home".

who is he? lemme spud him

[L1ONE]

most try to hard... look at dappy.

some are just fags and chat shit... look at dogzilla

the rest are just fake... look at fugitive lol.

exceptions of a few, but none are in my top 10 of rap or grime.

[One_and_only]

I wish race wasn't an issue, but I think it plays a small role. I think it is harder for non Afro-Carrabians to get big in the scene. I don't think theres anything directly racist about it, its more indirect. Saying that if you've got real talent you should blow.

But for me UK MC's(not just grime) like Loudmouth, L Dot Man and Devlin are much better than MC's like Dot Rotton, Giggs, Griminal. If you want to be a white MC I think your standard has to be higher than if your black. How you are rated is based on people's opinions and perceptions and if your white you are automatically looked down upon slightly.
Just think would a white version of like Tempz get as big? As he is someone who basically creates hype by shouting about injurying people.

Would a white version of Jammer get very far? Would a white lethal get to the charts?
There answer in my opinion is NO! They would be laughed off stage. I like Jammer, Tempz and lethal but a white version wouldn't work. So I think its harder to break through if your white as you are limited to the style of your music and content.



You see what you've just doen there.....
Just described society for black people in employment, education, health care etc...

[One_and_only]

You've brought the wrong argument to the wrong person as I'm an EMINEM fan,
But I'd be lying if I said that he's got the best timing..he did progress immensely between the first two albums and continues to push boundaries lyrically.

I'd say his easily one of the best wordsmiths in Hip Hop ever, but rhythm is something many black MC's have on lock as standard, they don't work on it cause it's natural.

I know this may hit a nerve, I'm not trying to make this a race thing, but it's a fact.




Now your dealing with a real hip-hop fan.....
You either take that comment back, or I show you up with the FACTS!!

[tevin17]

You see what you've just doen there.....
Just described society for black people in employment, education, health care etc...

.
aswell as making himselft look like a fool
Giggs>>>>>Loudmouth
Dot>>>>>>Devlin
Grim>>>>>>L Dot Man

[Retrofreak]

Now your dealing with a real hip-hop fan.....
You either take that comment back, or I show you up with the FACTS!!

I give props where it's due, the guy has talent end of.

Eminem>>>>>___

[Revolution]

tru talk

[Mister Lacey]

lol nah but just no at this thread.

[G.P]

Forget rhythm and timing, being brought through by a good black/respected male is more important.

Syer B was with OT for yeaaaaaaaars, not many paid attention, Wiley hit him up and Syers fan base tripled.

Devlin was with Dogzilla/OT for yeaaaars, had a good fan base but again it tripled when Ghetto exposed him to the part of the Grime scene that wouldn't normally have paid attention to him.

Scratchy, I don't know what he was doing before Wiley/Roll Deep but Wiley pushed him for a good couple of years (just before he started pushing Strider) went from mixed reactions at raves to fucking them up.

Little D has for years had mixed friend ships/crews, main person he can get some light of now is obviously P Money.

Discarda, he had Gods Gift/Wolf Pack, as well as pushing him self.

L Dot had Big Narstie, there's no way he would have got as much attention had he tried on hes own.

Faction has never had that person, he trys to push him self, Rinse sets with the big boys and free promos but he still hasn't got known on a major scale.


I'm not saying these people didn't work hard, I'm just saying having some one that is rated that gives you a chance (because they think your good) can make your hard work pay off.

[Birdman]

didnt l dot do a tune about slavery or the black struggle or sumthing equally cringeworthy, what's he trying to prove ?

[fuk off]

Forget rhythm and timing, being brought through by a good black/respected male is more important.

Syer B was with OT for yeaaaaaaaars, not many paid attention, Wiley hit him up and Syers fan base tripled.

Devlin was with Dogzilla/OT for yeaaaars, had a good fan base but again it tripled when Ghetto exposed him to the part of the Grime scene that wouldn't normally have paid attention to him.

Scratchy, I don't know what he was doing before Wiley/Roll Deep but Wiley pushed him for a good couple of years (just before he started pushing Strider) went from mixed reactions at raves to fucking them up.

Little D has for years had mixed friend ships/crews, main person he can get some light of now is obviously P Money.

Discarda, he had Gods Gift/Wolf Pack, as well as pushing him self.

L Dot had Big Narstie, there's no way he would have got as much attention had he tried on hes own.

Faction has never had that person, he trys to push him self, Rinse sets with the big boys and free promos but he still hasn't got known on a major scale.


I'm not saying these people didn't work hard, I'm just saying having some one that is rated that gives you a chance (because they think your good) can make your hard work pay off.

Definatly but IMO It aint about race if some one established brings you through and you've put the work in more people will listen to your music whatever race you are

[Retrofreak]

Forget rhythm and timing, being brought through by a good black/respected male is more important.

Syer B was with OT for yeaaaaaaaars, not many paid attention, Wiley hit him up and Syers fan base tripled.

Devlin was with Dogzilla/OT for yeaaaars, had a good fan base but again it tripled when Ghetto exposed him to the part of the Grime scene that wouldn't normally have paid attention to him.

Scratchy, I don't know what he was doing before Wiley/Roll Deep but Wiley pushed him for a good couple of years (just before he started pushing Strider) went from mixed reactions at raves to fucking them up.

Little D has for years had mixed friend ships/crews, main person he can get some light of now is obviously P Money.

Discarda, he had Gods Gift/Wolf Pack, as well as pushing him self.

L Dot had Big Narstie, there's no way he would have got as much attention had he tried on hes own.

Faction has never had that person, he trys to push him self, Rinse sets with the big boys and free promos but he still hasn't got known on a major scale.


I'm not saying these people didn't work hard, I'm just saying having some one that is rated that gives you a chance (because they think your good) can make your hard work pay off.

If your talking about exposure then yes, but good skills will keep them there.

You could be brought through with the biggest crew in Grime, but if your not sitting in them beats and eating MC's then it's air anyway.

One of the main missing components is "Rhythm".

Pro Green, Jehst and all them have got lyrics for days, but the struggle to sit on slow beats nicely, let alone fast past Grime tracks.

[G.P]

Definatly but IMO It aint about race if some one established brings you through and you've put the work in more people will listen to your music whatever race you are

In one sense but in another I cant see many black people going out of there way to listen to a white mc that isn't known, most white people wouldn't, so the only way we are exposed to them is if there brought through, it does apply to all races though, you naturally think well he must be good to be rolling with them, sort of like how a lot of people checked out Hoodstars because Dot is connected or was connected with them.


If your talking about exposure then yes, but good skills will keep them there.

You could be brought through with the biggest crew in Grime, but if your not sitting in them beats and eating MC's then it's air anyway.

One of the main missing components is "Rhythm".

Pro Green, Jehst and all them have got lyrics for days, but the struggle to sit on slow beats nicely, let alone fast past Grime tracks.

I like to think a good rated mc bringing some one in would have good skills, of course maintaining that standard is a different story, like how people think Devlin isn't as good.

I can see what your saying and do agree to some extent, when I last heard Devlin on Westwood he was falling off the beat but surely that's just down to not practicing?

Scratchy doesn't fall of any more than Wiley, Trim or other top mcs.

[Retrofreak]

In one sense but in another I cant see many black people going out of there way to listen to a white mc that isn't known, most white people wouldn't, so the only way we are exposed to them is if there brought through, it does apply to all races though, you naturally think well he must be good to be rolling with them, sort of like how a lot of people checked out Hoodstars because Dot is connected or was connected with them.



I like to think a good rated mc bringing some one in would have good skills, of course maintaining that standard is a different story, like how people think Devlin isn't as good.

I can see what your saying and do agree to some extent, when I last heard Devlin on Westwood he was falling off the beat but surely that's just down to not practicing?

Scratchy doesn't fall of any more than Wiley, Trim or other top mcs.

What i'm saying is, I personally think it's a talent your born with and practicing only enhances it.


Someone with remarkable timing will have gaps, in their flow, speed up, slow down and catch the beat from any point whilst retaining the groove.

Devlin overly jams words in the bar, so he can stay in time as he's filing up every possibility at once...kind of like playing a 16 hi hat constantly with no variation.
This backfire's when he runs out of breath as it shifts his timing out.

As I said before Devlin is an incredible MC dare I say, "The best white MC", but he rushes and runs ahead of the beat at times and never properly ends his verses..they just stop!.

Wiley is naturally gifted with timing his constantly in the pocket when he sits on Grime.
His flow is natural to him as he's very percussive.

Trim's timing is swag, but his more about the words kinda like Bizzare from D-12.

[G.P]

What i'm saying is, I personally think it's a talent your born with and practicing only enhances it.


Someone with remarkable timing will have gaps, in their flow, speed up, slow down and catch the beat from any point whilst retaining the groove.

Devlin overly jams words in the bar, so he can stay in time as he's filing up every possibility at once...kind of like playing a 16 hi hat constantly with no variation.
This backfire's when he runs out of breath as it shifts his timing out.

As I said before Devlin is an incredible MC dare I say, "The best white MC", but he rushes and runs ahead of the beat at times and never properly ends his verses..they just stop!.

Wiley is naturally gifted with timing his constantly in the pocket when he sits on Grime.
His flow is natural to him as he's very percussive.

Trim's timing is swag, but his more about the words kinda like Bizzare from D-12.

So your saying white people aren't born with that talent? :laugh:.

On a real I can see what you mean and I do agree, its the reason I'm not fond of Devlin, the hi hat thing is basically him, its the same reason I still haven't heard hes first CD and Wiley is the master, doesn't even need to wait for the beat to come in, he just jumps on it.

Scratchy for me is as good as most other mcs though, regardless of color, most sets hes on he will change up hes flow from one verse in to another, hes also changes up hes speed a lot, almost to the point it sounds like hes talking and then speeds back up.

[Retrofreak]

So your saying white people aren't born with that talent? :laugh:.

On a real I can see what you mean and I do agree, its the reason I'm not fond of Devlin, the hi hat thing is basically him, its the same reason I still haven't heard hes first CD and Wiley is the master, doesn't even need to wait for the beat to come in, he just jumps on it.

Scratchy for me is as good as most other mcs though, regardless of color, most sets hes on he will change up hes flow from one verse in to another, hes also changes up hes speed a lot, almost to the point it sounds like hes talking and then speeds back up.

lol nah..i'm saying it's a rarity, but you do get some that have it.

Until I hear more white MC's i'll give it to Shifty and Devlin as they spit fire imo.

Devs is top 5 spitter for me, he just needs to make better music to confirm it.

[OnaDigitalFlex]

is it harder for black people to join the *** lol. naah ,serious though i think it aint harder for them not just many that are decent to be mentioned. dee and devlin get ratings.

[Lemz09]

Boy, I Didnt Expect A 12 Page Response On Dis Topic. Lool

[Mister Lacey]

Watch.

[Kaychi]

No.

/Thread.

.....tbh

[Dee_Dot]

look at devlin n scratchy bk inda day

[t.paul]

nah u know wat dats da gd thing wid grime i dunt think deres ani discrimanatoin if ur talented and put in work u will gt dere and be sucssesfull

[Weed&Beer]

lol was suppose 2 sleep but i was 2 busy reading dis whole discussion, interestin read

[Curphey]

When your White you get hated on more for making Grime, dunno if it's harder to break through though.

[Sam]

I know a guy called Kaos he has like 500,000 views on one track on Youtube - it doesn't appeal to me, but it appeals to his own fans (those people we call chavs). Could be the case that nobody on here has heard of him, but there are more Grime fans than what any of us lot just know of.

Somebody like Little Dee appeals to the mainstream grime audience (basically this forum) - because he spits with P Money, Jendor and so on.

So really it depends on appeal, another thing being people always like to listen to something/somebody they can relate to!

Same way I won't lie people get a bit too happy and give extra credit just because an MC is white which is daft. And too many white MCs come with that "im the white MC" kinda shit in their bars which is air.

---

Oh and its 2009, nobody hates on white MCs, moretime if you think that's the case you're just shit to be fair.

[Curphey]

I know a guy called Kaos he has like 500,000 views on one track on Youtube - it doesn't appeal to me, but it appeals to his own fans (those people we call chavs). Could be the case that nobody on here has heard of him, but there are more Grime fans than what any of us lot just know of.

Somebody like Little Dee appeals to the mainstream grime audience (basically this forum) - because he spits with P Money, Jendor and so on.

So really it depends on appeal, another thing being people always like to listen to something/somebody they can relate to!

Same way I won't lie people get a bit too happy and give extra credit just because an MC is white which is daft. And too many white MCs come with that "im the white MC" kinda shit in their bars which is air.

Agree with some of what you're saying, but I'd just like to point out Views on Youtube, Myspace, Bebo etc; mean nothing, because most artists cheat them.