How To Fix Grime

[Pred]

There is obviously a lot going on in regards to the Snowman & Dubstep vs Risky thing, and reading it got me thinking: what can actually be done?

In order to come up with an answer I had to think about why people download in the first place. There's 2 categories really, and they are the singles (instrumentals and vocals) and the mixtapes.

Stuff that people like to listen to but simply cannot get anywhere else (90% of instru's never get released). Grime could learn a very big fucking lesson from the Drum & Bass scene, especially the breakbeat.co.uk site. They have a quality download shop where tunes can be bought for like 99p or whatever, and in different qualities for different needs (obviously a DJ will want a higher quality mp3 or even a lossless version of the tune). That makes the content accessible and also gives the producers profit that honestly they wouldn't see otherwise. Breakbeat.co.uk also has sets that you can get for free. This is in some cases better than single instrumentals, as they are free for download in CD quality (well, 128k). You might get the odd instrumental mix on Logan's show, but for new releases you don't see a lot of that so people download the instrumentals to listen to. If it's between vinyl and illegal downloading, what do you think the non-DJs will pick?

Regarding the album/mixtape downloading side of PG...well like I suggested in my comment that Scratcha read out on the day of the Risky interview set, the 1 minute previews thing would be a good idea. But here's where it went wrong. The responsibility of the snippet making was passed from the people who actually make it (and could easily create the snippets, and to their own specifications) to who are essentially random people. That's not the way.

There's always going to be the people who download, whether they have their reasons or not (one could be quality of music...but that's up to the artists, and the fans who listen to the artists to push them to create better music). But talk is cheap. Doing something about it is what's needed. What have we seen done since the Risky interview? Now regardless of his suspicious & unnecessary delays, the most that has been done is...nothing so far. Except Risky has stopped bootlegging (something which is also disputed in many a conversation).

Basically people are slacking and wondering why things are going bad. Look what Hij & his team have done in a few months. There's GrimePedia, GrimeForum, and soon there will be GrimeStore. All from people who aren't money makers within the scene. If I had the knowledge, time, money and backing I'd already have a Grime download site up and running.

[Quite a character]

even if dubplate.net jus got a bit more grime in it wd be a huge boost tbh

[frankD]

Demand and supply.

[Pristine Condition]

if producers released more instrumental cds, then i would b happy to spend money on.

bcoz alot of tunes, i have on my fone / i tunes, is bcoz of the instro alone. ALOT of mcs chat shit / the same thing.

and producers have to be sure who actually get their tunes, bcoz they are the ones who control the leaking.

[Retrofreak]

^^^^There's truth in all the above comments.

The biggest problem we have is that some of us don't know how to act so we got "NO CONSISTENT RAVES"

Without clubs:
1. There's no demand for vinyl so producers wont see revenue.
2. It's harder to introduce new listeners to the real Grime experience "BASSSSSS!!,HYPE,HOOKS and CLASHES"
3. The scene just turns into a Laptop culture were downloading and radio rips are the norm.

The future of music is live events.
If we cant go out and enjoy shows without the bullshit, then I struggle to see a bright future.

[The Elijah]

^^^^There's truth in all the above comments.

The biggest problem we have is that some of us don't know how to act so we got "NO CONSISTENT RAVES"

Without clubs:
1. There's no demand for vinyl so producers wont see revenue.
2. It's harder to introduce new listeners to the real Grime experience "BASSSSSS!!,HYPE,HOOKS and CLASHES"
3. The scene just turns into a Laptop culture were downloading and radio rips are the norm.

The future of music is live events.
If we cant go out and enjoy shows without the bullshit, then I struggle to see a bright future.

quite a few nails.

im going to change at least 2 of them situations by the end of 2008.

hopefully more butterz raves

possibly putting out vinyl.

Def putting stuff on CD, possibly tape packs of live events/studio sessions.

and possbily a mixtape that ill try make over the summer when I will have more time on my hands.

We need to exploit all media- mp3, mpeg, dvd,cd,vinyl and live events.. thats what my overall aim will be in 08. Something prolific in each category.

[Jay]

quite a few nails.

im going to change at least 2 of them situations by the end of 2008.

hopefully more butterz raves

possibly putting out vinyl.

Def putting stuff on CD, possibly tape packs of live events/studio sessions.

and possbily a mixtape that ill try make over the summer when I will have more time on my hands.

We need to exploit all media- mp3, mpeg, dvd,cd,vinyl and live events.. thats what my overall aim will be in 08. Something prolific in each category.

Definately, hopefully can get that first vinyl sorted over the next few days aswel mate, will have the results Sunday so can get it sorted then.

More people need to be investing in their product in more mediums, not just throwing out a mixtape and then leaving it.

[Steez]

It won't change. Grime heads are greedy ... if you let them have 98p from every 99p download, they'd probably message you back informing you that won't even buy them a can of Red Bull.

98p profit >>>> 0p profit ....
and ...
Potential Xp profit also >>>>> 0p profit

but you try telling them that.

[DJ Mad Vybez]

For me there is money to be made but for some reason alot of people just seem to be dumb and can not hustle

yeah on a real producers need to release cds of their instrumentals coz nothing is coming out on vinyl I have messaged a few producers wont name names i asked if that track out coming out give me a cd with a few tracks for £5
coz thats making u some change coz its a way of changing ur myspace hits into cash coz as a vinyl u will probely get £3.50p max sor but people can not see it


and alot of people are deluded when it comes to this music thing

for me grime has gone from being some gritty thing to internet music and I blame it on the muskateers vs east co set on deja people may disagree but losing deja vu was a very very big blow for the scene because it was something that had a strong structure behind it and when that went u had raw blaze but with weak foundations it fell yeah there is rinse what is a big station dont get me wrong. You could hear grime on the radio all the while b4 and now the only show i can pick up grime on without being near the net is logans show
Alot of the up n comers also think logan is the be all and end all alot of people cuss then logan for not playing them but to be honest them people r just on the fame ting thats the only way i can look at it coz if you was serious you would go round finding dj's to push u and once ur have built up something logan should be coming to them for tracks

[frankD]

http://www.wrexham.gov.uk/images/museum/victorian_values/ffb9.jpg

Grime Grime Grime.... What have you done you silly fool!

Hanging around Logan Sama and getting up to mischief.

You naughty genre, I hope you learn your lesson and fix up your ways.

[Retrofreak]

For me there is money to be made but for some reason alot of people just seem to be dumb and can not hustle

yeah on a real producers need to release cds of their instrumentals coz nothing is coming out on vinyl I have messaged a few producers wont name names i asked if that track out coming out give me a cd with a few tracks for £5
coz thats making u some change coz its a way of changing ur myspace hits into cash coz as a vinyl u will probely get £3.50p max sor but people can not see it


and alot of people are deluded when it comes to this music thing

for me grime has gone from being some gritty thing to internet music and I blame it on the muskateers vs east co set on deja people may disagree but losing deja vu was a very very big blow for the scene because it was something that had a strong structure behind it and when that went u had raw blaze but with weak foundations it fell yeah there is rinse what is a big station dont get me wrong. You could hear grime on the radio all the while b4 and now the only show i can pick up grime on without being near the net is logans show
Alot of the up n comers also think logan is the be all and end all alot of people cuss then logan for not playing them but to be honest them people r just on the fame ting thats the only way i can look at it coz if you was serious you would go round finding dj's to push u and once ur have built up something logan should be coming to them for tracks

^^^Real talk manifested

[frankD]

Grimes foundations are unstable.

We all know that Garage died because the sound became too dark, and the place just became full of rowdy guys and the police would close events.

The negative elements of garage, were then formed into grime.
So even tho the trendy guys and girls were saying it was the best new thing, it was only a question of time before the same thing that happened to garage happened to grime.

But reading early interviews with acts, the ideas were always to be more than just a rave mc and do albums and gigs. Exactly what Dizzee Rascal has done.

Anyway we can't go back to the start because we will end up where we are now again.

Dubstep has worked. But that took positives from garage.

I think the only differences you will see in the grime scene will be sales figures.

[Quality Control]

..in regards to the bootlegging/downloading thing; most people just think "why should i pay for something that i can get for free".. there's really nothing you can do about that.. it's not that they don't know where to buy it, or the quality is generally too low, or they're too poor/young..

[frankD]

..in regards to the bootlegging/downloading thing; most people just think "why should i pay for something that i can get for free".. there's really nothing you can do about that.. it's not that they don't know where to buy it, or the quality is generally too low, or they're too poor/young..

or just don't care about the artist, or don't really hold the artist in much regard, just like one or two songs etc.

Like I didn't buy my music software, im robbing the guys of their living.
But I don't really care about them guys to be honest.

[Retrofreak]

or just don't care about the artist, or don't really hold the artist in much regard, just like one or two songs etc.

Like I didn't buy my music software, im robbing the guys of their living.
But I don't really care about them guys to be honest.

It's a shame really, cause we keep expecting artist to keep upping their levels, when it takes time and money that they've invested in advance for our downloadable pleasure.

A years + of someone's hard work is leaked and bootlegged in seconds.

If we don't wake up and deal with this as fans, we wont have anything left...After all MC's just wanna spit and earn a living so they can continue providing us with quality music.

If Artist and Producers cant eat off of Grime, there'll go wherever the "P" is "Wearing my Rolex" case in point.

[Steez]

The well known saying springs to mind ...

"You know the price of everything and the value of nothing"

['nuum general]

raves will solve so much of this as retrofreak & elijah have pointed out. There's nothing better in grime than someone like tempz or jammer on stage & the whole crowd going mental. Thats the problem with youngers, they don't have this experience. Hopefully i'm looking to put something on later in the year when i've ssaved up a bit more

[Quite a character]

raves is all grime needs. every scene has bootlegging its not a factor

[Quality Control]

or just don't care about the artist, or don't really hold the artist in much regard, just like one or two songs etc.

Like I didn't buy my music software, im robbing the guys of their living.
But I don't really care about them guys to be honest.

..yeah, most people actually don't give a shit about whether the artist is making money as long as they are saving it themselves.. but what can you do? i personally don't give a shit i download all my hip-hop and other genres, DVD's, TV programmes, software etc.. but i do make a point of supporting grime because of it's size and the fact that i'm more involved in the scene and sub-culture than i am all that other stuff.. if i wasn't i'd probably be downloading all my grime shit too..

[Alfie]

I've never really understood why old school grime listeners(Aka us lot) has been pissed at Indie kids listening to it. I hear a lot of "Its our scene" blah blah. It's pushing the grime scene through. I've been to indie raves to see Boy Better Know and Ruff Sqwad and the amount of trouble there is stupid, "Give me a chewing gum!" "No" "Rush dis yout" because im not your stereotypical grime listener (Im not a indie kid, I just dont wear tracksuits and ballys). Who really and truly cares about who listens to grime? Other scenes get in on it = more money, more raves, better mix CD's.

IMO people need to let anyone listen to grime.

[Steez]

^lol common sense tells man not to roll up to an Eski Dance in a suit get me? Dress for the occassion g

[Noog Shot!]

raves will solve so much of this as retrofreak & elijah have pointed out. There's nothing better in grime than someone like tempz or jammer on stage & the whole crowd going mental. Thats the problem with youngers, they don't have this experience.

I think that's why we need more radio along with the raves so that all the mcs can practice their rave/hype bars, especially the youngers.

[HypeKidd]

I'l be honest I thought twice about reading this thread but I did anyway and there suprisingly good points. I just thought it would be someone saying "IF WE BEAT UP RISKY, KILL THE OWNER OF LIMEWIRE AND STAB LOGAN (JUST FOR AN EXTRA LAUGH)" then the scene will be saved... Sorry for the underestimation.

It's true, we need more access to buy the music, for everywhere in the country. We can't just hang it on the internet though, a lot of people wouldn't be able to buy something from it without a lot of hassle with parents and stuff etc. I have a shop down my town that has started shipping in all grime mixtapes, albums, dvds etc. We need more of them. I was shocked, i walked down my town center and saw Ghetto Gospel in the window next to Risky Roads Volume 2 and a Freedom Of Speech poster. I almost pissed myself with excitment. Then i found out they have loads of grime vinyls and microphones and stuff. My new favourite local = Raskall Records :)

[DaBlackAlbino]

Things don't progress because there's a lack of IQ in the scene and a lack of motivation.

Grime scene needs to get schooled on business, government grant to educate the grime scene is needed. Anyone up for signin petition? :laugh:

[Steez]

^If you somehow managed to get the 3 best businessmen in the world to do a free week long seminar focusing purely on making money via business in grime ... I'd put money on less than 20 established heads going, these guys think they already know it all even if they are broke

[DaBlackAlbino]

^ Very true, there's alot of negativity coming from MC's as well. One major thing I think that needs to be realised is that spitting shouldn't be about respect or proving that your a bad man; it should be done out of enjoyment and passion; Passion makes stronger talent and effectively more money.

Motivation, co-operativeness and innovation are all you need to make money in this world and grime lacks all 3 (except maybe some aspects of innovation) as far as I can see.

I'm not a business man but if I could sit down with certain MC's and fix up their mind state I'd do it to help.

In my eyes right now, only Wiley has the right idea when it comes down to P and then again he's an older. Respect to Wiley.

[Nine Bar]

Things don't progress because there's a lack of IQ in the scene and a lack of motivation.

Grime scene needs to get schooled on business, government grant to educate the grime scene is needed. Anyone up for signin petition? :laugh:

spot on....havent read all this thread but cum on "how 2 fix grime" shutup with dat talk man

[Steez]

You know what? Does anyone remember the Deuce magazine article a few years ago about how to make it big in garage/grime ... it was about 8 pages long, had interviews with all kinda of people in the scene about where people went wrong and how to move forward etc.

If they re-did that purely focused on grime and specifically aiming at money, that would be sick.

Also, grime heads need to go outside of just the grime scene, send tracks to companies pushing into movies etc.