The effect of the initial media hype on "grime" and it's current state now.

[Danny Trejo]

I don't have a blog so I'll vent here instead.

I don't know, the more I delve into my site and the more sets and relics I acquire, there more I think about what would have happened if the bloggers-cum-journalists and music press and A&Rs- the "outsiders" I suppose hadn't jumped upon the scene before it was really due.

Whether many of you are inclined to agree with me or not, and I guess the newer people to the scene might disagree, but there's been a gradual dissipation of the spirit in the scene. You can trace it through the nature of pirate radio/ciphers alone.
Just look at the hype and passion of the early days and compare it to the likes of the Skepta/Kano/Ghetto set from Logan. From the uninhibited, completely uncommercial (in relative terms) nature of the old Nasty sets to Skepta plugging his sponsorship deal with a clothing company that's the son of Von Dutch in the space of 6 years if not less?

The simple fact, for me, is that the street hype of the scene got picked upon by A&Rs and labels and they took something away from it's context before it was due to happen and in terms of the sound everything's gone downhill ever since.
Yes, BIDC was a classic album, no doubt, and Wiley's maybe done a couple of alright CDs in the mainstream, but what else? The fact is that Dizzee got plucked out of the crowd, and expectations got twisted. Everyone starts to consider themselves an artist when in reality you're in a scene taking baby steps and you've got four bars.

We'll never get it back either.

['nuum general]

This is a factor. I personally think that the whole myspace revolution has had as much if not a greater negative impact.

[Carter]

People like Chantelle Fiddy ruined Grime, they knew nothing about the music or its culture and just watched from the safety of their shoreditch pubs and clubs! While the real scene was at Young Man Standing, Rumble, Sidewinder, Rinse, Deja Vu, Rhythm Division & Uptown before Dirty Canvas, Straight Outta Bethnal, Channel U & UK Record Shop came along and raped the scene. Channel U made the scene look stupid and took away its raw image and made it the joke of the industry.

Chantelle Fiddy and Dan Stacey got their little Run The Roads thing off the ground but to me because I see clear, it was just a vehicle for Lady Sovereign, Mike Skinner & Plan B and to test the waters for Kano.......which brought us to Typical Me & This Girl ft. Craig David, because lets face it P's & Q's didn't set the world on fire! You could see it these articles at the time, there was no mention of Jookie Mundoe, Flirta D, Ruff Squad or D-Double-E........we had stories on Lady Sovereign, Plan B & Mike Skinner's remixes

[Grimes]

its gone.

[nii-o]

I actually agree with a lot of Carter's post for once but you can't always blame bloggers.

there's a positive and negative for everything

it's the artists who lost their heads

[Carter]

I actually agree with a lot of Carter's post for once but you can't always blame bloggers.

there's a positive and negative for everything

it's the artists who lost their heads

I don't blame all bloggers just her lol

Because she had the ear of that label and used grime to make some money off a club night and by promoting artists like Lady Sovereign and Plan B and not real grime acts! Then she makes a video talking about she fell outta love with grime but she loves it now because of Stryderman and Summertime lol

A few artist did lose their heads BUT who was they dealing with???? Chantelle Fiddy, 679 & Channel U lol

679 & Channel U killed the scene!

[Grimes]

They took our jobs

[/URL][URL="http://imageshack.us"]http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4387/tookoursharkstn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Carter]

They took our jobs

[/URL][URL="http://imageshack.us"]http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/4387/tookoursharkstn5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


They took meeeeeee job lol

['nuum general]

679 did push some shit artists, and I think they believed they had a potential mega-star on their hands with Kano. They should have kept the run the roads compilation going, it may have been a bit selective as to who was on it (particularly the 2nd one) but it was undoubtedly the best thing they did.

The other point I'm going to make it that the journalists tend to hype up a particular artist rather than the scene in general. All this did was create a couple of egos/people who thought they were "bigger than the scene" & leave the rest in the dark.

[nii-o]

I don't blame all bloggers just her lol

Because she had the ear of that label and used grime to make some money off a club night and by promoting artists like Lady Sovereign and Plan B and not real grime acts! Then she makes a video talking about she fell outta love with grime but she loves it now because of Stryderman and Summertime lol

A few artist did lose their heads BUT who was they dealing with???? Chantelle Fiddy, 679 & Channel U lol

679 & Channel U killed the scene!

but she's a journalist - this is what they do

it's the lack of foresight by the artists that meant they got seduced by...their own egos in a way thinking they were "going to blow" but not exactly knowing how and therefore relying on characters like Fiddy who then uses that steam to progress her career. I don't blame her that much - can you ? journalism is a cesspool at the best of times

also this music was just at the wrong place at the wrong time

[Carter]

Fuck her anyway, I shouldn't have brought her up.........I wouldn't cum on her at a orgy

[Alfie]

Fuck her anyway, I shouldn't have brought her up.........I wouldn't cum on her at a orgy

I would lol.

[phen]

I blame :

stupid mc's who should still be practising on radio but are instead are releasing swag mixtapes that no-one in there right mind will ever buy

people from outside the scene writing about the scene - almost every article i've ever read in the mainstream press concerning grime contains loads of pretty basic errors and more importantly never actually 'gets' grime

us lot for downloading too much (but if most of the stuff being released is shit then its hardly a suprise)

the movement.

[Carter]

Yeah artist have got lost along the way too, I mean look at N.W.A and Death Row when they came out they didn't change their image or music and it was harder for them back then.....

But I mean who told Tempa T to dress like this???? Its the media getting in their heads lol

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.6b6f4d258f.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=369&i=tenoti5.jpg)

[Retrofreak]

Yeah artist have got lost along the way too, I mean look at N.W.A and Death Row when they came out they didn't change their image or music and it was harder for them back then.....

But I mean who told Tempa T to dress like this???? Its the media getting in their heads lol

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.6b6f4d258f.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=369&i=tenoti5.jpg)

^^^

The same people that told the King of Grime to impersonate Kid n Play lol.

[Equilibrium]

Yeah artist have got lost along the way too, I mean look at N.W.A and Death Row when they came out they didn't change their image or music and it was harder for them back then.....

But I mean who told Tempa T to dress like this???? Its the media getting in their heads lol

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.6b6f4d258f.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=369&i=tenoti5.jpg)

argh fuck u dont know how much that pic pisses me off, even tempa t
grime needs that integrity back someone talented who is going stick to their roots 'you know the grime'

[Grimes]

for real. fuck rwd for telling roadside g's to make a cake, fuck rwd for making flirta d try to chat up girls on a road.

[The Elijah]

Media hype did two things in my eyes

1. Created a false economy which is the grime mixtape. and in turn created unrealistic expectations for the success of these products. I remember early mixtape articles where people were claiming to have sold 10K on the streets which was lies.

2. Gave the outsider a massive expectation for the music, which it simply wasn't ready for, we had some really good tunes like Cock Back, Destruction and give you more on the first run the roads, but when people were trying to compare this generation of artists to Run DMC and Public Enemy of the UK people were going to be disapointed.

BBC1xtra and Channel U helped to level the playing field between UK and US artists to a certain extent here, but poor quality control leads on both mediums has left us with LOADS of people involved in music, when they should be fans.

RWD magazine was a really good outlet, then something went wrong. People blame it on different things, but it is all down to money at the end of the day. You aint got 4 bills or your not sucking dick, sorry mate come back next time.

Who are all these bloggers you lot keep talking about anyway, google grime blogs not that much comes up. In all underground music scenes fact is you will have people writing about it that dont know squat, not their fault but they make a living chatting shit, so it has to be done. Let me show you an email I got from somebody working at The Metro.

I sent him an email telling him Dance with me and Wearing My Rolex arent grime and I pointed him in the direction of Rude Kids EP and told him to review that and Grimepedia. You see, people I do other shit apart from talk shit on my blog and lock topics.
Metro Writer:

Thanks for the email. it's always good to get feedback

As for grime making it up the charts, your opinion is fair enough. What is grime music to you then? Is it defined by its production, or vocal qualities, or both? I only ask because I'm curious and it's an interesting debate!

For example is Rudekid grime, even though his EP is totally instrumental. Wiley's early instrumental riddims - igloo, ice rink - are considered grime. yet have no vocals.

Hopefully we can revisit grimepedia before long.

Keep in touch, and me posted on what you're up to.

That is what we are dealing with.

Im off to roller disco.

[Danny Trejo]

Who are all these bloggers you lot keep talking about anyway, google grime blogs not that much comes up. In all underground music scenes fact is you will have people writing about it that dont know squat, not their fault but they make a living chatting shit, so it has to be done. Let me show you an email I got from somebody working at The Metro.

The early bloggers, who created the initial hype for scene- the likes of Simon Reynolds, who dropped the scene and called it for shit. I saw him making posts on fuckin Donk the other day for christ's sake.

Early stuff, not now.

[The Elijah]

The early bloggers, who created the initial hype for scene- the likes of Simon Reynolds, who dropped the scene and called it for shit. I saw him making posts on fuckin Donk the other day for christ's sake.

Early stuff, not now.

ah right, them times there I was probably at yms while he was indoors writing about how hype it is.

[The Elijah]

and dont credit bloggers 4 hyping the scene, the music was something 2 be excited about.

[Grimes]

rude kid is a bad representation of the scene.

[Danny Trejo]

What I'm saying is that these people brought it into the spotlight too quick, created the media hype, and did a lot of damage.

[The Elijah]

at the time the best ep had juss come out, that was/is a good example of a grime song.

[Grimes]

in 08: media hype hurt grime

04 : good look for grime

[The Elijah]

What I'm saying is that these people brought it into the spotlight too quick, created the media hype, and did a lot of damage.

nah bruv I think your over reading it, man were moving like 1000 vinyl and shit in 2003 b4 anyone was reading these things.

1 guy who i know released a song in 2002 and he bought a car of the sales of that vinyl u think he owes anything to these blogs. when prancehall started writing about grime, did sales go up? Nope. Getting your face in a newspaper is easy, getting the reader to buy your cd... hard.

[Danny Trejo]

hindsight

[Carter]

Lets not get on our high horses here because Grimepedia lacks basic grime infomation, no send

['nuum general]

nah bruv I think your over reading it, man were moving like 1000 vinyl and shit in 2003 b4 anyone was reading these things.

1 guy who i know released a song in 2002 and he bought a car of the sales of that vinyl u think he owes anything to these blogs. when prancehall started writing about grime, did sales go up? Nope. Getting your face in a newspaper is easy, getting the reader to buy your cd... hard.

I think what slackk is saying is that the attention from media make people think that, "why i am sitting here selling 1000 vinyls when I could sell 10000 cds" or something along those lines. giving unrealistic expectations.

The vinyl market was part of the foundations of the scene & its demise has affected the scene badly.

['nuum general]

Lets not get on our high horses here because Grimepedia lacks basic grime infomation, no send

oddz doesn't have a page :stunned::sad:

[Danny Trejo]

yeah, pretty much

[The Elijah]

the whole digital transition has really effected it. if people could just do singles on digital download only or quality EPs instead of forcing 20 tunes available to 1 or 2 stores then you have lost before you have even started in my eyes.

three things u need - availability awareness and demand. if it dont tick them boxes you have failed as soon as that CD is pressed

[The Elijah]

Lets not get on our high horses here because Grimepedia lacks basic grime infomation, no send

will take a long time b4 it all there.

[Carter]

will take a long time b4 it all there.

Not even a Deja page bruv

[Grimes]

Get over it

[The Elijah]

I think what slackk is saying is that the attention from media make people think that, "why i am sitting here selling 1000 vinyls when I could sell 10000 cds" or something along those lines. giving unrealistic expectations.

The vinyl market was part of the foundations of the scene & its demise has affected the scene badly.

well if we changed what we was doing, and it WORKED and then stuck to it, then fair enough. Its changed, it doesnt work, but people still do it thinking they are going to win.

only person that done well of the mixtapes is JME.

['nuum general]

the whole digital transition has really effected it. if people could just do singles on digital download only or quality EPs instead of forcing 20 tunes available to 1 or 2 stores then you have lost before you have even started in my eyes.

three things u need - availability awareness and demand. if it dont tick them boxes you have failed as soon as that CD is pressed

People don't think that you can release a CD with 4 tracks on it like you would a vinyl. Don't know why tbh, its still cheaper to press up

[The Elijah]

Not even a Deja page bruv

alright,we can make a de ja page, not gona change anything is it, the earth aint gona shake.

as a grime person would say



coming soon

[Grimes]

Elijah you do a grime seminar or sutting

[Nine Bar]

Why do so many people who have done nothing for the scene and only have one decent 16 decide that they really are gonna get a independant number 1 and are "artists" all of a sudden?

Remember Channel U, easy recognition, name spreading across the UK, watched by millions, but now they are too big for Channel U because someone like Tinchy has his face rotating over "proper" music channels.

Remember Rinse, Deja etc, again easy recognition, name spreading across the UK, heard by alot of people, yet because people like Wiley/Kano/Tinchy have said them days are gone, weve come too far to start back at square 1. All these idiots claim there too far gone or to much of a "big artist" to go on Rinse.

If only half of these fools was around when Rinse was the biggest thing in Grime, i think it would have disciplined them, and they wouldnt be chatting all this bollocks now.

Lol and bloggers do nothing but help the scene.
Truth is without a modem there wouldnt be no scene. that is fact.

[The Elijah]

People don't think that you can release a CD with 4 tracks on it like you would a vinyl. Don't know why tbh, its still cheaper to press up

digital dl man all da way, will be cheaper. for them and for us. physical product = ALBUM AND VINYL..
everything else digital fuck it.

[Grimes]

music don't sell generally.

['nuum general]

digital dl man all da way, will be cheaper. for them and for us. physical product = ALBUM AND VINYL..
everything else digital fuck it.

Obviously for number of sales digital is gonna be the best, the problem is it can be long to set up & quite a few people I can imagine won't have a clue how to go about it. Pressing up CDs can be a happy medium between the two. I still think you need to come strong on all 3 formats to keep all the avenues open.

[Carter]

alright,we can make a de ja page, not gona change anything is it, the earth aint gona shake.

as a grime person would say



coming soon

Just saying, sending a email to a guy about his Dizzee Rascal and Wiley piece and referring him to grimepedia where he can read articles on Pro Green, Lauren Mason & Adam Deacon but not Deja Vu.........silly?? lol

[The Elijah]

Most of the people (not Elijah) who run this site probably didn't even listen to Deja until grimetapes.com opened, that's why.
ive even played at de ja. under another alias though.

you cant use this whole they werent listening 2 pirate radio 2 slew people though. most people wouldnt of been able 2 recieve it 4 geographical reasons anyway.

[Trapstar]

Yeah artist have got lost along the way too, I mean look at N.W.A and Death Row when they came out they didn't change their image or music and it was harder for them back then.....

But I mean who told Tempa T to dress like this???? Its the media getting in their heads lol

http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/6361/tenoti5.6b6f4d258f.jpg (http://g.imageshack.us/g.php?h=369&i=tenoti5.jpg)
dressing like carlton from fresh prince. but grime kinda of went bad a few years ago me and most of my people (nearly everyone in the area)stopped listening in 2006 i think people are getting a bit lost thinking about the 'mainstream' 2 much.

[Trapstar]

Most of the people (not Elijah) who run this site probably didn't even listen to Deja until grimetapes.com opened, that's why.
i used 2 lock into deja every monday from meridian to tu tuff.

[quality]

The hype is one thing. MCs buying the hype is another.

Kano, Roll Deep, Wiley and Doogz were all signed, but either made hip-hop, weak pop or (in Wiley's case I'm talking way after the hype, about PIO, I thought Treddin... was big) put out half-arsed efforts. Kano was in a real position to do something, it's a shame he didn't.

[Nine Bar]

The hype is one thing. MCs buying the hype is another.

Kano, Roll Deep, Wiley and Doogz were all signed, but either made hip-hop, weak pop or (in Wiley's case I'm talking way after the hype, about PIO, I thought Treddin... was big) put out half-arsed efforts. Kano was in a real position to do something, it's a shame he didn't.

Whne your signed, your not incharge of what you make, or even how you dress.

[Retrofreak]

Whne your signed, your not incharge of what you make, or even how you dress.

Yes you are in charge..it just comes down to you having a strong team around you.

[quality]

Whne your signed, your not incharge of what you make, or even how you dress.

So no one in the music industry makes the music they want to?

[Carter]

The media didn't understand the music and the scene didn't understand the industry and thats what brings us where we are now.......

[Eric Cantona]

Goodz still signed to Polydor ain't he?

[Nine Bar]

Yes you are in charge..it just comes down to you having a strong team around you.

Your always 2nd mate


So no one in the music industry makes the music they want to?

Dont talk dumb, of course they do but if "bob" really likes track 1, but his label people dont, you think its coming out?

I no what im talking about

[Danny Trejo]

nah, distro deal i think though

[Trapstar]

Im actually upset at were I see this music now.

listening 2 dizzy back2back wiley

[Retrofreak]

A record company doesn't put a gun to your head when your in the vocal booth.

Weak artist record and hand in bait songs and do "Uncle Tom" movements in video's for P.



"You need a strong team around you".

[Trapstar]

Face it the goverment dont want another so solid in the charts on the tv in the papers or anywhere in the mainstream.

[quality]

Dont talk dumb, of course they do but if "bob" really likes track 1, but his label people dont, you think its coming out?

I no what im talking about

There is a massive list of artists who don't compromise and put out music on their terms. Retro's point about artists focusing on P is the answer - they hear the whispers from people on the label or even from their team and decide it'll be a good idea to record tracks with Kate Nash.

[Retrofreak]

Grime is an arena, a training ground for MC's to battle and sharpen their skills.

It's a platform for MC's to be seen ,cherry picked and moved on to the next level.


If we could make a business out of Grime it would be worth sustaining and MC's would record alot more of it.

but until such times..

"MC's will pursue that Mainstream money and Grime will just be a looked at as a "Platform"

[quality]

Grime is an arena, a training ground for MC's to battle and sharpen their skills.

It's a platform for MC's to be seen ,cherry picked and moved on to the next level.


If we could make a business out of Grime it would be worth sustaining..

but until such times..

"MC's will pursue that Mainstream money and Grime will just be a looked at as a "Platform"

I agree that the grime scene (even though it doesn't really exist anymore IMO) is a platform. I think a credible MC/artist could bring the grime sound with them to the mainstream though, but another BIDC is looking less and less likely.

The amount of work being put in independently atm is alot though.

[Nine Bar]

Grime is like Crewe Alexandra, some very good up and coming, fresh, hungry talent.

Ready to be sold to UK Hip-Hop (a prem team)

[quality]

Grime is like Crewe Alexandra, some very good up and coming, fresh, hungry talent.

Ready to be sold to UK Hip-Hop (a prem team)

But UK Hip-Hop isn't a Premiership team. It's not really marketable at all with a few exceptions. The mainstream doesn't really want to hear a rehash of what has already come over from the US. People want authentic music (again with the exception of stuff like Crazy Frog).

Kano got signed off the back of the rave scene. Why didn't he just make the music that got him signed? He decided to try and catt Jay-Z at every opportunity and make swag pop, hip-hop and ultimately disappointed. Don't tell me that's all 679's doing, because he turned away from the scene.

[Danny Trejo]

grime is leeds united

[Nine Bar]

But UK Hip-Hop isn't a Premiership team. It's not really marketable at all with a few exceptions. The mainstream doesn't really want to hear a rehash of what has already come over from the US. People want authentic music (again with the exception of stuff like Crazy Frog).

Kano got signed off the back of the rave scene. Why didn't he just make the music that got him signed? He decided to try and catt Jay-Z at every opportunity and make swag pop, hip-hop and ultimately disappointed. Don't tell me that's all 679's doing, because he turned away from the scene.

True dat True dat

[Oh My Diddy]

Grime dont even exist no more.

[Retrofreak]

Dizzee Rascal

/thread.

[fuk off]

Media hype did two things in my eyes

1. Created a false economy which is the grime mixtape. and in turn created unrealistic expectations for the success of these products. I remember early mixtape articles where people were claiming to have sold 10K on the streets which was lies.

2. Gave the outsider a massive expectation for the music, which it simply wasn't ready for, we had some really good tunes like Cock Back, Destruction and give you more on the first run the roads, but when people were trying to compare this generation of artists to Run DMC and Public Enemy of the UK people were going to be disapointed.

BBC1xtra and Channel U helped to level the playing field between UK and US artists to a certain extent here, but poor quality control leads on both mediums has left us with LOADS of people involved in music, when they should be fans.

RWD magazine was a really good outlet, then something went wrong. People blame it on different things, but it is all down to money at the end of the day. You aint got 4 bills or your not sucking dick, sorry mate come back next time.

Who are all these bloggers you lot keep talking about anyway, google grime blogs not that much comes up. In all underground music scenes fact is you will have people writing about it that dont know squat, not their fault but they make a living chatting shit, so it has to be done. Let me show you an email I got from somebody working at The Metro.

I sent him an email telling him Dance with me and Wearing My Rolex arent grime and I pointed him in the direction of Rude Kids EP and told him to review that and Grimepedia. You see, people I do other shit apart from talk shit on my blog and lock topics.
Metro Writer:

Thanks for the email. it's always good to get feedback

As for grime making it up the charts, your opinion is fair enough. What is grime music to you then? Is it defined by its production, or vocal qualities, or both? I only ask because I'm curious and it's an interesting debate!

For example is Rudekid grime, even though his EP is totally instrumental. Wiley's early instrumental riddims - igloo, ice rink - are considered grime. yet have no vocals.
Hopefully we can revisit grimepedia before long.

Keep in touch, and me posted on what you're up to.

That is what we are dealing with.

Im off to roller disco.

WTF??? how can someone so dumb get a job at a national newspaper "are Igloo+ ice rink grime" smh grime is grime whether its vocal or instrumental

['nuum general]

Dizzee Rascal

/thread.

basically, but it doesn't allow us to argue & discuss for 4 pages so we'll blame journos instead

[quality]

Grime needs a Motown.

[The Elijah]

WTF??? how can someone so dumb get a job at a national newspaper "are Igloo+ ice rink grime" smh grime is grime whether its vocal or instrumental

people dnt get tested on their musical knowledge, it is their writing ability, if they are accurate its a bonus

[The Elijah]

Remember Rinse, Deja etc, again easy recognition, name spreading across the UK

a lot of people passed through both those stations in the past 5 years. How many are still around still keeping it moving.

Easy recognition i dont think so.

[nortside]

1 of the main problems is there are more spitters then fans

let me give you examples when i started spitting i still respected the top buys and me and my dj would still buy their records, listen to their shows but i know certain man who when they started spitting suddenly thought hey was too good to listen to the wileys & kanos and wouldn't waste p on buying records

another thing grime does'nt make songs you wanna dance to(thats y funky is the ting for the hype these days) grime has morphed into some mixtape uk hip hop nonsense, it needs to get back to its roots of making man wanna dance

[JRX]

what do the big mcs actually mean when they say they want grime to 'blow'?

to reach the levels of US Hip hop? this will never happen for some obvious reasons,

1) hip hop has already had 20 odd years of being ingrained into western popular culture, its been moulded into something palatable for everyone whilst retaining an underground existance for those who want to delve deeper.

2) kids in the UK dont want UK hip hop otherwise it probably would have happened by now (i really hope Sways album does well)

3) the white middle class cant identify with grime yet; they view grime as the music of those same kids they are scared of getting stabbed by everytime they step outside. this is why the record labels dress grime artists up in that nu-rave 'hip' clothing or try and associate it with the middle class indie aesthetic.

4) the essential 'grime' sound is too harsh for the mainstream audience. this is why as soon as it is attached to something more palatable, e.g electro it starts to suceed. however just because some teenage girl listens to 'wearing my rolex' it doesn't mean she's then gonna want to listen to some greezy war dub which is actually more reflective of the grime sound. its the same with pendulum in that people who dont like dnb cause they think its too fast suddenly like it as soon as its coupled with a more acceptable rocky aesthetic and sound despite having the same tempo.

5) grime is destined to stay underground in the same way dubstep, dnb, even death metal are. yeah you'll have to break through album, your BIDC, your burial - untrue, goldie - timeless and then the odd singles but thats it. the thing is in those genres most of the big artists are at least content with being big in the underground and instead try to expand the underground scene to make money rather than hopelessly grasping at mainstream success.

Despite all this i think grime can blow but never in the way it originally sounded or with the same image. But who knows, maybe if that happens it will leave room for another MC based underground genre to emerge and take its place?

[The_best]

Lets not get on our high horses here because Grimepedia lacks basic grime infomation, no send

I agree. I live in Birmz & I know more information on some of the artists on there. More time, I'm updating it. Untill they took away those capabilities ofcourse.

[Shower_Face]

4) the essential 'grime' sound is too harsh for the mainstream audience. this is why as soon as it is attached to something more palatable, e.g electro it starts to suceed. however just because some teenage girl listens to 'wearing my rolex' it doesn't mean she's then gonna want to listen to some greezy war dub which is actually more reflective of the grime sound. its the same with pendulum in that people who dont like dnb cause they think its too fast suddenly like it as soon as its coupled with a more acceptable rocky aesthetic and sound despite having the same tempo.

If 50 Cent can make a song with Akon singing the hook saying "I'll still kill" & it gets banged out on daytime television, surely the essential "grime" sound can work given more vocalists start singing hooks. I think Skepta's Nokia Charger Wire would work to tell the truth, I can see alot of ppl singin' along to "I want a skeng thats looong, like my nokia charger wire".

[mos dan]

i was watching Urban Underground DVD the other day, and Marcus Nasty said something which i had to scribble down in MS Word (COS I'M A JOURNALIST! OH NOEZ!) - very interesting in terms of showing the early attitude to grime's money-making potential:


“Any Tom, Dick or Harry can make money out of the grime game”, he says referring to the DVDs like Risky Roadz, t-shirt sales and the like, “there’s so much ways to make money from the grime game, you don’t even have to be a DJ or an MC. Or even a producer. You could just be selling things that we do.”

can you imagine anyone saying that now with a straight face?

[Danny Trejo]

fuck off Dan, your lot ruined this ;)
But yes, yr right

[mos dan]

lol about 'my' lot, the main reason i write is because most other journalists' writing annoys me so much that i feel obliged to 'correct' it, or at least argue with it. obvs you know this lol.

[mos dan]

one thing about prancehall and shoreditch types and vice magazine and so on though.. as i was saying on the guardian blog (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/sep/03/fashion) the other day: if it was true they only gave a shit about grime for two seconds in 2003/4, how come they're still writing about it now? LONG after it stopped being 'fashionable'...

obvs that doesn't apply to everyone, i was just talking about vice.

[Danny Trejo]

I have no problem with Vice really. It's more the Dazed sort of crew, and as I said, Reynolds has always pissed me off. some next twat.

[Disi18]

to be real and on a level the only thing that can be classed as grime these days and go far in the music industry is the instrumentals and beats. in the climate of the uk at this moment in time with the amount of youts bein killed on road and the way in which the streets of london are comin more like LA in the mid 90's, ppl gettin on a mic and talkin bout shank shank, buss my 9 etc aint gonna be allowed 2 get anywhere near the ears of the public in the majority!

the future and the only way that the scene could ever be like it was is if the producers, dj's etc move on there own and leave behind the mc's. i kno this seems quite controversial but can trident and the police shut down grime raves if there is nobody there on the mic shoutin violent lyrics down the mic?? i personally love the gully road tunes that grime can sometimes give us! but if u man wanna talk about grime and how it could ever be a proper "rave" scene again in this country it would have to be more focused on the creative side of beat making, and gettin the scene to move back to its roots from garage, jungle etc and leavin behind the american influences of the music (the deep spittin etc) cuz the country jus aint ready for it in its current climate!

anyway rant over! just my personal feelins on how grime could have a buddin rave scene again, not sayin that is what should happen but the producers and dj's easily could do that in my view! i still love hearin "flick out my flick knife shank him 6 times" kind of lyrics (no homo)

[TerrorS]

Theres a lot of bullshit in this thread. People r just talking the same negative crap over and over again. Grime is going thru the same things Rock n Roll went thru in the late 50's to 60's, Punk rock in the the 60's to 70's and hiphop in the 80's. This music is still young, and has a long way to go imo. My problem is the people that listen to grime have such a negative view of the scene. The internet has given the fans a chance to air their views but so many of you spend your time saying "Grime is dead" or He's shit, shes shit or their shit.

Ask yourself this question, what have you ever done to help push this scene forward?????????????

I think i know the answer....


moaning cunts!!!

[The Messiah]

Theres a lot of bullshit in this thread. People r just talking the same negative crap over and over again. Grime is going thru the same things Rock n Roll went thru in the late 50's to 60's, Punk rock in the the 60's to 70's and hiphop in the 80's. This music is still young, and has a long way to go imo. My problem is the people that listen to grime have such a negative view of the scene. The internet has given the fans a chance to air their views but so many of you spend your time saying "Grime is dead" or He's shit, shes shit or their shit.

Ask yourself this question, what have you ever done to help push this scene forward?????????????

I think i know the answer....

moaning cunts!!!

A lot of anger here. A couple of points.

Grime is nowhere near established as Rock n Roll, Punk Rock and Hip-Hop were during their transition phases.

The people that appear to have a negative view of the scene are generally people who feel that Grime now, isn't what it used to be 5 years ago. When people are asked to name their top ten tracks of all time, 99.5% of people will name tracks prior to 2005. A fan of hip-hop/rap will mention the NWAs, The Big Daddy Kane's etc, but they will also probably name something off 50 Cent's GRODT or something by Ludacris. Hip-Hop/Rap hasn't changed so dramatically that people keep talking about the old days, or don't feel there have been classics the past few years. It also didn't have an electro phase either...

As for people who keep saying X is shit of Y is shit, you aren't going to get constructive criticsm off teenagers at the end of the day. So artists need to sieve through those comments and read the more detailed stuff rather than taking them to heart.

As for what I've done for the scene, what more can I do other than turn up for raves and buy CDs? Don't patronise, because a substantial number of people do their part. Grime digital has a store whose aim to to make the music available for as cheapy as possible.

[Retrofreak]

Bottom line.

Fans are now critics and the critics aint fans.

[The Messiah]

Bottom line.

Fans are now critics and the critics aint fans.

Nail. Much more eloquently put, than how I was trying to say it.

[TerrorS]

A lot of anger here. A couple of points.

Grime is nowhere near established as Rock n Roll, Punk Rock and Hip-Hop were during their transition phases.

The people that appear to have a negative view of the scene are generally people who feel that Grime now, isn't what it used to be 5 years ago. When people are asked to name their top ten tracks of all time, 99.5% of people will name tracks prior to 2005. A fan of hip-hop/rap will mention the NWAs, The Big Daddy Kane's etc, but they will also probably name something off 50 Cent's GRODT or something by Ludacris. Hip-Hop/Rap hasn't changed so dramatically that people keep talking about the old days, or don't feel there have been classics the past few years. It also didn't have an electro phase either...

As for people who keep saying X is shit of Y is shit, you aren't going to get constructive criticsm off teenagers at the end of the day. So artists need to sieve through those comments and read the more detailed stuff rather than taking them to heart.

As for what I've done for the scene, what more can I do other than turn up for raves and buy CDs? Don't patronise, because a substantial number of people do their part. Grime digital has a store whose aim to to make the music available for as cheapy as possible.

You missed my point.

Im not comparing grime with hiphop or rock and roll. Im saying its going thru the same things in terms of the way its poratyed in the media.

[The Messiah]

You missed my point.

Im not comparing grime with hiphop or rock and roll. Im saying its going thru the same things in terms of the way its poratyed in the media.

Again Grime isn't really being exposed in the mainstream media to the extent these other genres were. The internet allows much more information to be given out to those who want to find it. But you won't find a mention of Grime in even 5 out of 52 weeks of the year in a redtop like The Sun - let alone the broadsheets.

The media hype of Grime came from bloggers. Not journalists or news reporters. Fans got annoyed with bloggers after a while and only the best survived the massacre and are still around now. Then the fans turned on the music as artists began to believe the hype that came from the bloggers and felt that the once in a decade opportunity that only falls to very talented people i.e. Dizzee - could happen to them. Chipmunk and Double S have openly said they are doing Grime for the money/the possibility of going up to Dizzee's level. Wiley or Titch wouldn't have said that 5 years ago.

[Trapstar]

Theres a lot of bullshit in this thread. People r just talking the same negative crap over and over again. Grime is going thru the same things Rock n Roll went thru in the late 50's to 60's, Punk rock in the the 60's to 70's and hiphop in the 80's. This music is still young, and has a long way to go imo. My problem is the people that listen to grime have such a negative view of the scene. The internet has given the fans a chance to air their views but so many of you spend your time saying "Grime is dead" or He's shit, shes shit or their shit.

Ask yourself this question, what have you ever done to help push this scene forward?????????????

I think i know the answer....


moaning cunts!!!:thumbup:

[Retrofreak]

^^^^True,

But all of the "Fizz POP" sell out moves where made by the "King of Grime" long before Skepta and them.

[Retrofreak]

Cool, but there's no excuse for Fizzy POP!! as Ice Cube said, "Stay true to the game"

0KzYwGZGNAc

[Jay05]

A record company doesn't put a gun to your head when your in the vocal booth.

Weak artist record and hand in bait songs and do "Uncle Tom" movements in video's for P.

"You need a strong team around you".

this is very true


Grime is like Crewe Alexandra, some very good up and coming, fresh, hungry talent.

Ready to be sold to UK Hip-Hop (a prem team)

sad again but seems true

I blame the artists, no1 is stopping them going to radio or making grime

while blame can be handed out to media hype, artists should be strong enough to do what they feel is right

[Shower_Face]

Read this interview wit JD aka Dready. He talks about the best ways of gettin' urself heard is tapping into the German markets etc. They hear about Grime in Germany, Sweden etc.

http://www.originsmag.com/origin_pages/origin_content_main.aspx?thetable=industry&thenum=76

[mos dan]

Bottom line.

Fans are now critics and the critics aint fans.

well phrased but, since i can copy and paste this shit easy from a word doc: these are all mine, all from the last two years (i.e. after the initial hype):

wiley interview in the guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/may/18/urban

durrty goodz interview in fact magazine
http://www.factmagazine.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=702&Itemid=27

rinse fm (incl vectra and little dee) review in the new statesman
http://www.newstatesman.com/radio/2007/08/pirate-stations-music-internet

defending grime in general, guardian blog
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2007/11/hold_the_epitaphs_for_grime_music.html

refs to skepta and fwd, guardian blog
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/music/2006/12/keep_this_frequency_here_in_de.html

ruff sqwad interview in dazed and confused
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1322/1380725429_8fb347d287_b.jpg

kano interview in dazed and confused
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1134/1381620184_4b68b050b2_b.jpg

never mind the fanzines like woofah and the other web stuff. big up dave stelfox, melissa bradshaw, jp, prancehall and all the other people i can't think of who are hustling the mainstream media on grime these days.

[The Elijah]

http://www.originsmag.com/origin_pages/origin_content_main.aspx?thetable=industry&thenum=73 - hattie collins interview

[Danny Trejo]

RWDmag went right down the nick when she took over.

[Blimey]

Initial hype was important in my eyes, Dizzee' success inspired people and gave them a belief that they could succeed in this sound too. If it wasnt for this, surely alot more people would have moved onto different sounds earlier as they did previously before Grime. But... in pursuit if this dream they've changed bit by bit trying to get there.

If it wasnt for the hype around Dizzee, Wiley, More Fire Crew, Shystie, i wouldnt be here today. I had no idea about all the pirate radio sessions going on in london, or the raves. But i'll be first one skanking anytime a classic comes on in a club for their grimey 5 mins.

[The Elijah]

If it wasnt for the hype around Dizzee, Wiley, More Fire Crew, Shystie, i wouldnt be here today. I had no idea about all the pirate radio sessions going on in london, or the raves. But i'll be first one skanking anytime a classic comes on in a club for their grimey 5 mins.

props. i respect that.